Falling down with the ball

[Adam]

Okay, here's the sitch from my JH games last night. A1 dives for ball and catches it while airborne and then lands on the back side of his shoulder. I have generally wondered about this, leaning towards thinking it's a violation. However, I ended up letting it go last night.

Partner and I discussed it at the next quarter, and his take is that it is legal.

Thoughts?

[FrankHtown]

If a rebounder catches the ball in the air, and then falls,(e.i. touch the floor with something besides hands/feet) I believe you'd call a travel without thinking about it. I think it's a similar situation.

I think the rule is if you are holding a live ball, and touch the floor with anything but your hands and/or feet, it is a travel. I guess the options are call time out real quick, or somehow start a dribble.

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Okay, here's the sitch from my JH games last night. A1 dives for ball and catches it while airborne and then lands on the back side of his shoulder. I have generally wondered about this, leaning towards thinking it's a violation. However, I ended up letting it go last night.

Partner and I discussed it at the next quarter, and his take is that it is legal.

Thoughts?

That is a travel.

[FishinRef]

The player would have to control the ball prior to leaving the floor on the 'dive" before it's a violation. If he/she gains control in flight, no violation.

[jdw3018]

4.44.5 Situation A: It is traveling if A1 falls to the floor:...(b) after being airborne to catch a pass or control a rebound.

[FishinRef]

If anyone has a copy of "Seven Deadly Sins of Officiating" published in Referee Magazine, they address this exact sitch. The player can land directly on his/her torso, and even slide without rolling over without a violation if possesion is gained after the player is airborne.

[HawkeyeCubP]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

If anyone has a copy of "Seven Deadly Sins of Officiating" published in Referee Magazine, they address this exact sitch. The player can land directly on his/her torso, and even slide without rolling over without a violation if possesion is gained after the player is airborne.

The case play cited by jdw addresses this situation exactly. Violation.

[Grail]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

If anyone has a copy of "Seven Deadly Sins of Officiating" published in Referee Magazine, they address this exact sitch. The player can land directly on his/her torso, and even slide without rolling over without a violation if possesion is gained after the player is airborne.

Given a choice, I'll accept the ruling from the Case Book before I accept the article in Referee magazine. If I tell the coach to go look it up in a magazine he'll laugh me out of the gym, but if I tell him that the play is directly out of the NFHS casebook he has nothing left to argue about.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

4.44.5 Situation A: It is traveling if A1 falls to the floor:...(b) after being airborne to catch a pass or control a rebound.

If we're going to get nitpicky, this was neither a pass or a rebound. It was a loose ball. I have always read this to mean hitting the feet and then falling. Not sure the referee magazine article necessarily contradicts this.

[FishinRef]

The case play cited by jdw addresses this situation exactly. Violation.

So you are saying that a player can not legally dive for the ball and gain possession without it being a violation unless he/she defys gravity.

A player landing on their back and staying on their back is no different than a player landing on their feet and staying on their feet.

The rule you are emphasizing uses the word FALL. Falling requires that you be standing or upright first.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

So you are saying that a player can not legally dive for the ball and gain possession without it being a violation unless he/she defys gravity.

No, they have to hit the ground, then hold the ball. Gravity is happy with this choice.

4-44-5 . . . A player holding the ball:
a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by FishinRef

So you are saying that a player can not legally dive for the ball and gain possession without it being a violation unless he/she defys gravity.

A player can legally dive for the ball anytime. If they get player control before they hit the floor, then it's a travel when they hit. If they get player control after they hit the floor, they can slide, finish rolling over if they were rolling over, etc. Case book plays 4.44.5SitA&B have good explanations.

Methinks that you should re-read the Referee reference. I'm sure that they wouldn't screw up a basic rule that badly.

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

4.44.5 Situation A: It is traveling if A1 falls to the floor:...(b) after being airborne to catch a pass or control a rebound.

Does this mean that it's legal to catch the ball airborne when it is not a pass or rebound?
I guess the first part of the case play covers this

It is traveling if A1 falls to the floor: (a) while holding the ball

IMO it doesn't seem fair for A1 to dive for a ball and gain possession 2 inches from the ground parallel to the floor and be called for a traveling violation. This kid hustles his butt off by diving for the ball and he gets penalized for it. I guess there are other rules that are not exactly fair so I guess I will call it this way.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by All_Heart

IMO it doesn't seem fair for A1 to dive for a ball and gain possession 2 inches from the ground parallel to the floor and be called for a traveling violation. This kid hustles his butt off by diving for the ball and he gets penalized for it. I guess there are other rules that are not exactly fair so I guess I will call it this way.

I happen to agree with you completely. Unfortunately, the rules disagree with what we'd prefer!

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Methinks that you should re-read the Referee reference. I'm sure that they wouldn't screw up a basic rule that badly.

You haven't been reading Referee lately then.