Question about being the first person to touch the ball after falling OOB

Vyn · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 09:26pm

My friend and I are having a debate about this. We were playing basketball one night, and this is what happened:

1) Player A shot the ball as he was falling out of bounds.
2) Player A falls out of bounds.
3) The ball hits the side of the backboard and bounces back toward Player A.
4) Player A stands up from out of bounds and sets two feet inbounds before being the first person to touch the ball for the rebound.

Did Player A commit a violation?

When you respond, can you please link us to the source of your information, because my friend doesn't believe anything unless it is in some rulebook somewhere, like from the NBA or NCAA or Olympics.

Thanks in advance.

zebraman · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 10:45pm

Player A did not committ a violation. It would not have been a violation even if player A only had one foot in bounds.

I don't believe there is a rule that addresses this directly. It's just that there is an absence of any rule that makes it a violation.

Good play by Player A.

The real question is which one of you thought it was a violation - you or your friend?

Z

Vyn · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 10:55pm

Well I was Player A, so my friend was the one that thought it was an illegal play. He even asked his co-worker who played a few years of "professional basketball", and he agreed that it was a violation. Is there a reason why they would think that it is a violation? Like for example, the rules changed at some point? Or they may be thinking about another sport? Thanks in advance.

Vyn

rainmaker · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 12, 2004, 11:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
Player A did not committ a violation. It would not have been a violation even if player A only had one foot in bounds.

...It would not have been a violation even if player A only had one foot inbounds, as long as the other foot was not touching out-of-bounds. That's important.

Vyn -- your friend may believe this because the rules are different in the NBA than almost anywhere else, and they can be extremely convoluted. But since what most people know most about is televised basketball, with commentators who don't have a clue, most people believe a lot of things that aren't the rules.

Next time you play with this friend, or any other friends for that matter, the best thing is to just clarify your rules ahead of time. It doesn't matter which way it's going to be called if you both agree to play the same. The most important ones to clarify are

the one you've just described

the catch your own airball/ travel

the "jump-stop"

three seconds -- offensive and defensive

the charge circle under the basket

fouls after the shot is in the air but before the shooter lands

over-the-back -- whatever that is

the high dribble

Anyone else have an item to contribute?

Adam · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 13, 2004, 09:15am

In pickup ball, the only rules to be concerned about are who calls fouls (offense or defense), the "catching your airball" rule, and the out of bounds play described. All the others don't really matter in pickup ball.

tomegun · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 13, 2004, 09:30am

I think we should all agree to never (almost) use the term "over the back" again. Push (on the rebound) should or could be used instead.

TimTaylor · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 13, 2004, 02:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
I think we should all agree to never (almost) use the term "over the back" again. Push (on the rebound) should or could be used instead.

Amen!

BktBallRef · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 13, 2004, 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
I think we should all agree to never (almost) use the term "over the back" again. Push (on the rebound) should or could be used instead.

For the most part, we don't use this term. A few newbies use it but that's about it.

Dan_ref · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 13, 2004, 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
Player A did not committ a violation. It would not have been a violation even if player A only had one foot in bounds.

...It would not have been a violation even if player A only had one foot inbounds, as long as the other foot was not touching out-of-bounds. That's important.

Vyn -- your friend may believe this because the rules are different in the NBA than almost anywhere else, and they can be extremely convoluted. But since what most people know most about is televised basketball, with commentators who don't have a clue, most people believe a lot of things that aren't the rules.

Next time you play with this friend, or any other friends for that matter, the best thing is to just clarify your rules ahead of time. It doesn't matter which way it's going to be called if you both agree to play the same. The most important ones to clarify are

the one you've just described

the catch your own airball/ travel

the "jump-stop"

three seconds -- offensive and defensive

the charge circle under the basket

fouls after the shot is in the air but before the shooter lands

over-the-back -- whatever that is

the high dribble

Anyone else have an item to contribute?

Uhmmm...not fer nuthin' but if we went over all this stuff before playing our mom's would call us in for dinner before we decided who gets the ball first.

rainmaker · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Jul 13, 2004, 05:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman
Player A did not committ a violation. It would not have been a violation even if player A only had one foot in bounds.

...It would not have been a violation even if player A only had one foot inbounds, as long as the other foot was not touching out-of-bounds. That's important.

Vyn -- your friend may believe this because the rules are different in the NBA than almost anywhere else, and they can be extremely convoluted. But since what most people know most about is televised basketball, with commentators who don't have a clue, most people believe a lot of things that aren't the rules.

Next time you play with this friend, or any other friends for that matter, the best thing is to just clarify your rules ahead of time. It doesn't matter which way it's going to be called if you both agree to play the same. The most important ones to clarify are

the one you've just described

the catch your own airball/ travel

the "jump-stop"

three seconds -- offensive and defensive

the charge circle under the basket

fouls after the shot is in the air but before the shooter lands

over-the-back -- whatever that is

the high dribble

Anyone else have an item to contribute?

Uhmmm...not fer nuthin' but if we went over all this stuff before playing our mom's would call us in for dinner before we decided who gets the ball first.

Yea, but at least there wouldn't be any disagreements about the rules!

Actually, when my kids play anything, I make them agree on the rules ahead of time. Once they've played together a few times, the agreements sort of hold over from game to game. Those first few discussions can get kinda lengthy, but then there are far fewer big problems later.

Nevadaref · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 14, 2004, 04:26am

There is a new twist to this now since the NCAA is considering making a rule change for next season:
2004 ANNUAL MEETING MEN'S BASKETBALL RULES ACTIONS

Rule 10-3.15
pg. 128
A player who steps out of bounds of his own volition and then becomes the first person to touch the ball after returning to the court shall be charged with a violation rather than an indirect technical foul.

Rationale: This places a more consistent penalty of the offended team being awarded a throw-in rather than free throws for this rules infraction.

I don't know it this has been approved yet or not.

Dan_ref · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 14, 2004, 09:11am

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
There is a new twist to this now since the NCAA is considering making a rule change for next season:
2004 ANNUAL MEETING MEN'S BASKETBALL RULES ACTIONS

Rule 10-3.15
pg. 128
A player who steps out of bounds of his own volition and then becomes the first person to touch the ball after returning to the court shall be charged with a violation rather than an indirect technical foul.

Rationale: This places a more consistent penalty of the offended team being awarded a throw-in rather than free throws for this rules infraction.

I don't know it this has been approved yet or not.

This change has nothing to do with the play we are discussing.

Currently the rule reads: Deceptively leaving the playing court and returning to a more advantageous position for an unauthorized reason.

The 2 case plays tell us what should & should not be a T under the rule.

The change better defines what is illegal and reduces the penalty.

theboys · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Jul 14, 2004, 02:51pm

In this case, wouldn't the reason for a non-violation be that the possession ended on the try, so the rebound would simply begin a new possession?

nate45 · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 02:29pm

I had a situation yesterday that I need some help on. It basically dealt with saving the ball to yourself. Player A was going towards the ball on the baseline as it was going out of bounds. He tried to grab the ball before it went out. He was going to fall out of bounds so he threw the ball back in. He then proceeded to watch the ball bounce, afraid to pick it up. He then went for it once he was back in bounds. Is this illegal? The other team felt it was since they thought you can't save the ball to yourself and that someone else has to touch it first? The referee said it was legal.

Jurassic Referee · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jul 19, 2004, 02:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by nate45
I had a situation yesterday that I need some help on. It basically dealt with saving the ball to yourself. Player A was going towards the ball on the baseline as it was going out of bounds. He tried to grab the ball before it went out. He was going to fall out of bounds so he threw the ball back in. He then proceeded to watch the ball bounce, afraid to pick it up. He then went for it once he was back in bounds. Is this illegal? The other team felt it was since they thought you can't save the ball to yourself and that someone else has to touch it first? The referee said it was legal.

The referee was right. Legal save.