Is this legal (falling out of bounds w/ ball)

[Larks]

A1 is holding the ball, falling out of bounds. He realizes he cant stay in bounds so he drops the ball in bounds....falls out of bounds....he then comes back in bounds and is the first to touch the ball. Legal?

NFHS references please.

Larks

[jritchie]

if he is going out on his own volition it's a violation...if he is hustling saving a ball and goes out by momentum and then comes back in it's legal!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Larks
A1 is holding the ball, falling out of bounds. He realizes he cant stay in bounds so he drops the ball in bounds....falls out of bounds....he then comes back in bounds and is the first to touch the ball. Legal?

NFHS references please.

Legal as long as the player hadn't dribbled before. If they had dribbled, that act would be deemed a 2nd., illegal dribble.Try case book play 7.1.1SitB- should be close enough.

[Larks]

JR,

So you are suggesting that the action of tossing the ball back in bounds is the start of a dribble?


Here is the 2002 7.1.1 Sit B (sorry, old test software)

7.1.1 SITUATION B: A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the floor inbounds, but A1, who is off balance, steps off the court. A1 returns inbounds, secures control of the ball and dribbles. Ruling: Legal. A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did. This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and momentum carries A1 off the court. If the try is unsuccessful, A1 may come back onto the court and regain control since A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did.

What if they had dribbled? OOB or Double Dribble?

[shont]

I feel that a blocked pass is different than tossing the ball and running after it and picking it up and then dribbling, which is starting a second dribble.

[Larks]

That and my other thought is what if you are standing there and lose your balance falling OOB?

[shont]

I think you should be able to come back in and pick up the ball.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by jritchie
if he is going out on his own volition it's a violation...if he is hustling saving a ball and goes out by momentum and then comes back in it's legal!

This is the new rule for NCAA, but not for Fed.

[Larks]

Chuck, can you post the NCAA rule info on this?

[ChuckElias]

I don't have my book in front of me Larksy, but the NCAA puts their rulebook online. It's in Rule 9 (Violations) and it's the section titled "Player Out of Bounds". It comes right after "Out of Bounds" (a player shall not cause the ball to be out of bounds). I don't have the exact rule reference, but if you go to the NCAA website, you'll find it easily enough.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Larks
A1 is holding the ball, falling out of bounds. He realizes he cant stay in bounds so he drops the ball in bounds....falls out of bounds....he then comes back in bounds and is the first to touch the ball. Legal?

NFHS references please.

Larks

If you have player control, dropping or throwing the ball in bounds is considered a pass/dribble.

By rule, if you make a pass and for whatever reason, there is not a teammate there to catch it, the passer may recover the ball or not secure the ball but continue dribbling it, as long as they had not ended a dribble before the pass.

In your play A1 had player control and either passed or dribbled when he dropped the ball on the floor. A1 may come back in and continue the dribble, the drop becomes an interrupted dribble, or secure the ball, and that would end the dribble.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Larks
JR,

So you are suggesting that the action of tossing the ball back in bounds is the start of a dribble?


Here is the 2002 7.1.1 Sit B (sorry, old test software)

7.1.1 SITUATION B: A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the floor inbounds, but A1, who is off balance, steps off the court. A1 returns inbounds, secures control of the ball and dribbles. Ruling: Legal. A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did. This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and momentum carries A1 off the court. If the try is unsuccessful, A1 may come back onto the court and regain control since A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did.

What if they had dribbled? OOB or Double Dribble?

The guiding principles are the red-highlghtd ones. The player was holding the ball in-bounds and then started to lose his balance. A1 now starts a legal dribble , by rule(R4-15-3). Then A1 losing his balance now and falling OOB becomes a legal interrupted dribble, also by rule(R4-15-5). A1 can now legally be OOB because of the red-highlighted principle in the case play above. A1 then immediately came back in-bounds, so R10-3-1(leaving the court for an unauthorized reason or delaying return) isn't applicable. Now the call depends on whether A1 had dribbled before starting this sequence. If he had, then he commits an illegal 2nd dribble as soon as he returns in-bounds and touches the ball, as per R9-5. If A1 hadn't dribbled before, then he could legally come back in-bounds and continue the dribble, or grab the ball and then hold or pass it.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I don't have my book in front of me Larksy, but the NCAA puts their rulebook online. It's in Rule 9 (Violations) and it's the section titled "Player Out of Bounds". It comes right after "Out of Bounds" (a player shall not cause the ball to be out of bounds). I don't have the exact rule reference, but if you go to the NCAA website, you'll find it easily enough.

It's rule 9-4...it's in gray in the book to show that it's new...

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Larks
JR,

So you are suggesting that the action of tossing the ball back in bounds is the start of a dribble?


Here is the 2002 7.1.1 Sit B (sorry, old test software)

7.1.1 SITUATION B: A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the floor inbounds, but A1, who is off balance, steps off the court. A1 returns inbounds, secures control of the ball and dribbles. Ruling: Legal. A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did. This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and momentum carries A1 off the court. If the try is unsuccessful, A1 may come back onto the court and regain control since A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did.

What if they had dribbled? OOB or Double Dribble?

If they were dribbling at the time they step out it's an OOB violation. If they ended a dribble and then dropped the ball, they can not come back in and be the first player to touch the ball. If they do touch it before another player it is a double dribble.

[Larks]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

The guiding principles are the red-highlghtd ones. The player was holding the ball in-bounds and then started to lose his balance. A1 now starts a legal dribble , by rule(R4-15-3). Then A1 losing his balance now and falling OOB becomes a legal interrupted dribble, also by rule(R4-15-5). A1 can now legally be OOB because of the red-highlighted principle in the case play above. A1 then immediately came back in-bounds, so R10-3-1(leaving the court for an unauthorized reason or delaying return) isn't applicable. Now the call depends on whether A1 had dribbled before starting this sequence. If he had, then he commits an illegal 2nd dribble as soon as he returns in-bounds and touches the ball, as per R9-5. If A1 hadn't dribbled before, then he could legally come back in-bounds and continue the dribble, or grab the ball and then hold or pass it.

Good stuff JR. Thanks for your help. This will settle a couple beer bets and I for one will enjoy every one of them!

Larks