Falling down with the ball

[gostars]

I have been told that if you aren't dribbling and you fall down with the ball it is a travel. I assume this is because when you fall down you pick up your pivot foot and put it back down. What if you fall and don't put you pivot foot back down on the floor? Still a travel? I know that if you get up or roll it is a travel. I also believe that you can't sit up without starting a dribble.

[Ref in PA]

4-43-5-a "A player holding the ball may not touch the floor with a knee, or any other part of the body other than the hand or foot."

This is the part of the traveling rule that applies when someone holding the ball falls to the floor. There are other provisions in the rule about when you are already on the floor when you gain possion of the ball.

[oc]

But not a travel in FIBA.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by gostars
I also believe that you can't sit up without starting a dribble.

Wrong. If you're lying on your back, you can sit up without starting a dribble. Of course, if you're lying on your front it doesn't really work out.

[IREFU2]

And if you are sitting up and you lie down on your back its a travel also.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by IREFU2
And if you are sitting up and you lie down on your back its a travel also.

Oh? Rules citation, please.

[mick]

Originally posted by gostars
I have been told that if you aren't dribbling and you fall down with the ball it is a travel. I assume this is because when you fall down you pick up your pivot foot and put it back down. What if you fall and don't put you pivot foot back down on the floor? Still a travel? I know that if you get up or roll it is a travel. I also believe that you can't sit up without starting a dribble.

gostars,
Also, ....
Too many times a player, who is fumbling the ball on his way to the floor, will be erroneously called for traveling, though there is no player control.
mick

[IREFU2]

SECTION 43 TRAVELING

ART. 5 . . . A player holding the ball:

a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.
b. After gaining possession while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

I have seen it everytime where a player dives for the ball or falls back on their rear end and lays back on their back. This constitues traveling. If they are on their back and sit up, that constitutes the attmept to get up.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by IREFU2
And if you are sitting up and you lie down on your back its a travel also.

It's not traveling. It's traveling if the player attempts to get up. Is a player who is sitting on the floor and lies down attempting to get up?

Looks like it's time for the Traveling quiz.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Dec 7th, 2004 at 09:33 AM]

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by IREFU2
If they are on their back and sit up, that constitutes the attmept to get up.

Read 4.43.5B and see if that doesn't change your mind.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by IREFU2
SECTION 43 TRAVELING

ART. 5 . . . A player holding the ball:

a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.
b. After gaining possession while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.

I have seen it everytime where a player dives for the ball or falls back on their rear end and lays back on their back. This constitues traveling. If they are on their back and sit up, that constitutes the attmept to get up.

1) R4-43-5(a) above is not pertinent. It refers to a player holding the ball while standing up.
2) R4-43-5(b) above is also not pertinent. It contains no mention of a player with the ball laying down from a sitting position.

There is NO rule stating that it is travelling if a player with the ball lays down after legally being in a sitting position. It's a legal play.

[IREFU2]

ART. 5 . . . A player holding the ball:

a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.

I was talking about this part when he/she lays back and the "any other part of the body" touches the floor. Maybe I am looking to far into it. I have seen this called every time it has happened. I am not trying to cause a debat or arguement, just want to get it right.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by IREFU2
ART. 5 . . . A player holding the ball:

a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.

I was talking about this part when he/she lays back and the "any other part of the body" touches the floor. Maybe I am looking to far into it. I have seen this called every time it has happened. I am not trying to cause a debat or arguement, just want to get it right.

See post above. This part of the rule refers only to a player who is standing, not laying on the floor.

[mick]

Originally posted by IREFU2

I have seen it everytime where a player dives [forward] for the ball or falls back on their rear end and lays back on [rolls over onto] their back. This constitu(t)es traveling. If they are on their back and sit up, that constitutes the attmept to get up.

Yes.
Perfect.
mick

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by IREFU2
ART. 5 . . . A player holding the ball:

a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.

I was talking about this part when he/she lays back and the "any other part of the body" touches the floor. Maybe I am looking to far into it. I have seen this called every time it has happened. I am not trying to cause a debat or arguement, just want to get it right.

Another part of his body is already touching the floor. It's not illegal if then he lies back. As Bob wrote, read the case play, which is directly on point.

As for seeing it called, that's not unusual. But it doesn't make it correct.