Question #28

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

No, but what's that got to do with this?

It has to do with whether or not you are going enforce the penalty as a Team Control foul or as an intentional/flagrant.

[just another ref]

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
No, but what's that got to do with this?

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

It has to do with whether or not you are going enforce the penalty as a Team Control foul or as an intentional/flagrant.

My point is that this is rule book language. Multiple choice question:

Which of the following passages comes from the rule book?

A. There are no free throws on a team control foul unless it is deemed
intentional or flagrant.

B. While A1 is holding the ball, if A2 commits a foul which is intentional or
flagrant, it is not a team control foul.

You could get the call right whether you knew the answer to this question or not.

[IREFU2]

Okay, the answer is false. No need for a big heated discussion. I just thought it was kind of a strange question. Both argued points are valid.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
No, but what's that got to do with this?





My point is that this is rule book language. Multiple choice question:

Which of the following passages comes from the rule book?

A. There are no free throws on a team control foul unless it is deemed
intentional or flagrant.

B. While A1 is holding the ball, if A2 commits a foul which is intentional or
flagrant, it is not a team control foul.

You could get the call right whether you knew the answer to this question or not.

Well, I know B didn't come from the rulebook b/c I wrote it. I'm still trying to find A in the rulebook but I seem to be having a problem locating it.

You may not think it matters, that's fine. But I think if an official reports A2's intentional/flagrant foul as a Team Control foul, Coach A is gonna have a problem when B2 is shooting free throws instead of Team B taking the ball out nearest the spot of the foul.

And since IREFU2 and I are in the same HS association I want to make sure he and I are on the same page. Because just our luck, we'll have our first game together and this exact scenario will happen.

PS: Rob, I only get heated at my kids, the ex-wife, the occasional girlfriend, and the Philadelphia Eagles' poor tackling.

[IREFU2]

I need to get on your level before we have a game together and you would be the Referee to keep the game straight...LOL!!! Is that occasioal girlfriend from Phili????????

[just another ref]

Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref
Multiple choice question:

Which of the following passages comes from the rule book?

A. There are no free throws on a team control foul unless it is deemed
intentional or flagrant.

B. While A1 is holding the ball, if A2 commits a foul which is intentional or
flagrant, it is not a team control foul.

You could get the call right whether you knew the answer to this question or not.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Well, I know B didn't come from the rulebook b/c I wrote it. I'm still trying to find A in the rulebook but I seem to be having a problem locating it.

You may not think it matters, that's fine. But I think if an official reports A2's intentional/flagrant foul as a Team Control foul, Coach A is gonna have a problem when B2 is shooting free throws instead of Team B taking the ball out nearest the spot of the foul.

Neither passage is from a book, but both would produce the same final result.

I guarantee you most coaches know a lot less about rulebook language than you and I do. If you report a flagrant or intentional foul on A1, I would be amazed if any coach ever asked, "Wasn't that a team control foul?"
BUT, they could, and even if they did and you incorrectly informed them that it was indeed a team control foul but you still get free throws since it was intentional/flagrant, 90 something % of coaches would not know the difference. And what difference is there, really? It's in the book as a personal foul. We will shoot 2, B will get the ball at the spot nearest the foul.
Now that the test is over, what reason is there for anyone to know whether this an exception to the team control rule, or the fact that the foul is intentional/flagrant means that it is no longer a team control foul.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

My point is that this is rule book language. Multiple choice question:

Which of the following passages comes from the rule book?

A. There are no free throws on a team control foul unless it is deemed
intentional or flagrant.

This one can't come from the rules book, because a TC foul cannot be I or F.

It's the same (or nearly so) as whether a player with the ball can commit a personl foul that's not a PC -- clearly so, and FTs would be shot.

[bronco]

It's the same (or nearly so) as whether a player with the ball can commit a personl foul that's not a PC -- clearly so, and FTs would be shot.

It's not entirely clear to me what an example of this is, but then again you know the rules better than I do.

I could think maybe a flagrant foul on a person who has the ball, but I'm not sure if that's what you were talking about.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bronco

It's not entirely clear to me what an example of this is, but then again you know the rules better than I do.

I could think maybe a flagrant foul on a person who has the ball, but I'm not sure if that's what you were talking about.

A1 grabs a rebound, pivots, and intentionally elbows B1. PC foul?

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

A1 grabs a rebound, pivots, and intentionally elbows B1. PC foul?

No, that is an intentional foul.

[Dougster45]

Originally Posted by bronco

It's not entirely clear to me what an example of this is, but then again you know the rules better than I do.

I could think maybe a flagrant foul on a person who has the ball, but I'm not sure if that's what you were talking about.

A1 dribbling up the court, pushes off b1 to get by him. PC?

[All_Heart]

Originally Posted by Dougster45

A1 dribbling up the court, pushes off b1 to get by him. PC?

Yes, this is a player control foul.

[roadking]

true,
4-19-3
are am i missing something here?