No time out left, or do I

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

PS Does anyone know how I can get one?

You can access it on Eofficials web site. I don't think theWMen post theirs but do know the women has it posted.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

As far as the issue of an NCAA bulletin on this, I would believe that it could well be covered in the D1 handbook that is given out at those regional rules meetings.

I don't own one, have never seen one, and have only heard about what is in them second hand, but from what I hear this is the kind of stuff that is in there.

PS Does anyone know how I can get one?

I just downloaded it from EOfficials. It's in PDF format.

[Nevadaref]

Are there separate ones for men and women?

Could you post a link?

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Are there separate ones for men and women?

Could you post a link?

https://www.eofficials.com/controlpa...x?ContentID=11

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Are there separate ones for men and women?

Could you post a link?

You need your user/password. Under 2006-07 Clinic Information they have both Men's and Women's presentations available.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

You can access it on Eofficials web site. I don't think theWMen post theirs but do know the women has it posted.

It's on eofficials?

I haven't seen it, I would appreciate a link to the bulletin, thanks

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

It's on eofficials?

I haven't seen it, I would appreciate a link to the bulletin, thanks

After you sign in go to the NCAA link, then scan the page.

[comical]

As someone who is an official scorer at a D-III school (and often is the only one keeping a book at the table) all this talk about errors at the table or discrepancies between what's in the book and what the referee has in mind regarding timeouts left is making me nervous.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by comical

As someone who is an official scorer at a D-III school (and often is the only one keeping a book at the table) all this talk about errors at the table or discrepancies between what's in the book and what the referee has in mind regarding timeouts left is making me nervous.

Don't be nervous. Just work hard to do your job and pay close attention to everything. Sounds pretty easy, you know... like running up and down the court blowing a whistle.

[comical]

Thanks for the reply. You're right about paying attention, of course. I'll just have to stay focused.

[j51969]

Early in the year I think this is a great learning experience for what is likely a young coach. He should have someone i.e. an asst. keeping track of his fouls and time-outs. However, if the official score keeper reguardless of who it is (parent or fan) is keeping the book; told him he had one I would find it hard to T, especially since the post said he heard the table tell hime he had one. The outcome of the game shouldn't be because of a book keeping error on the scorer. Either way you handle it he probably won't make that mistake again.

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by just another ref

But midway through the 4th quarter, A calls time out, both books agree that he has none, and the only thing standing in the way of a T is that "I was keeping up with time outs by switching these marbles from my right pocket to my left," I just don't see where I have the authority (or the nerve) to try and make it stick. Since I don't have this authority, I leave the marbles at home.

NFHS 2-12-6 says the scorekeeper shall " notify a team and its coach, through an official, whenever that team is granted its final allotted charged time-out."

So the coach and at least one official should be aware when the coach has used his last timeout.

Can you call a T on the table? Then why penalize the team? If the coach has recorded that he still has 1 timeout left, and the scorebook says he doesn't, who wins the argument? Are you still going to T the coach because the table isn't competant?

[archangel]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Totally disagree. Table could pass bad info to you and then you are passing bad info on to the teams. Now, I will ask both bookkeepers what time-out counts they have to make sure they match, but the only time-out information I'm passing along to the coach is the one where I say "Coach, you have no more time-outs left."

I agree with the "preventive game management" position. Isnt it possible that the ''Coach, you have no more time-outs left" info from the scorer could be as wrong as the OP?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by archangel

I agree with the "preventive game management" position. Isnt it possible that the ''Coach, you have no more time-outs left" info from the scorer could be as wrong as the OP?

Informing the coach he/she has no more times-out is part of an officials duties. It's in the rulebook but I can't quote the rule number at this moment.

Oops, read Jimgolf's post above yours.

[Stat-Man]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

While team B should have their own scorekeeper tracking this, team A should also have better qualified scorekeeping personnel. Giving incorrect information like that could give the appearance of cheating, and we definitely don't want to go there.

At lower levels, who does the book could be anyone, from a parent doign their first game to an injured player or student team manager.

We have one middle school in my area that consistently has non-playing players keep their book, so when we play at their site, I take NFHS 2-11-11 very literally and ask the scorer how many fouls are on a player after each and every foul and how many time outs are left after each time out. It probably isn't foolproof, but it at least minimizes the likelihood of bad information.

As for the orginial scenario, if the official scorer tells an official a team has one time out, and then after the tean's coach calls it, informs the official, there was really zero time outs left, I'd find it difficult to whack the coach (Team-T) if they were given clearly faulty information from the official book/scorer.