Jump Ball strange one

[Lotto]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

So you don't believe that this part applies in this situation?


RULE 4, SECTION 3 SETTING DIRECTION OF INITIAL ARROW
Alternating-possession control is established and the initial direction of the possession arrow is set toward the opponent's basket when:
ART. 1 . . . A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball.
ART. 2 . . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the free thrower after a common foul when the bonus free throw is in effect.
ART. 3 . . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the thrower after:
a. A violation during or following the jump before a player secures control.
b. The free throws for a noncommon foul.
c. A common foul before the bonus free throw is in effect.
NOTE: This procedure is used only to establish the alternating-possession procedure. See 6-4 for using the procedure and reversing the possession arrow.

No, I don't.

I'm guessing that you're next going to ask me why...

[bob jenkins]

I agree with those who said it's not covered.

So, I'm using 2-3 to set the arrow toward B's basket -- under the theory that A's score constitutes the first "posession" (an undefined term) and B should have the next AP.

[FrankHtown]

Do you really need possesion to score a goal? A tip is not possesion, and still counts as a goal.

B is getting the first possession after the made basket. Why not give A the arrow?

[agr8zebra]

Poss is not a requirement as team A can put the ball into B's basketball and team B is credited with 2 points. No team B Poss.

Let's revisit the value of the points that will be scored. Is A1's slap of a jumpball toss considered a try for goal?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by agr8zebra

Let's revisit the value of the points that will be scored. Is A1's slap of a jumpball toss considered a try for goal?

No, but it doesn't matter.

[Gimlet25id]

There's really only 2 ways to set the INITIAL direction of the AP arrow. It all revolves around either a player in control of the ball after the jump. (this would be in all cases where the ball was legally tipped and recovered in bounds) Once its controlled inbounds then the arrow is set to the opposing team:

OR the second;

Would be if no player control was ever gained then you would go to the the throw in. When setting the INITIAL direction, as soon as the ball is @ the disposal of the thrower then the arrow would be set toward the opposing team.

This is completly different then adminstering a AP throw in. All we are doing is setting the initial direction and not doing a AP throw in.

[Gimlet25id]

Has to be three point basket. Doesn't have to be try. Any ball that goes through the basket that is trown or tapped behind the tree point line by the offensive team assuming it doesn't hit anybody on the way will be a three point goal

Case Book 5.2.1 sit.B

[OHBBREF]

by definition player control can only exist on the floor holding ot dribbling the ball - and not durring a jump ball -
so you could only set the arrow when the throw-in after the basket is legally completed, the arrow would be set to the other team!

[tjones1]

Wow this is some good stuff. I think if this occured, team A would get the AP first, provided team B made a successful throw-in.

Here's what I got:
4-12-6
Neither team control nor player control exist during a dead ball, throw-in, a jump ball, or when the ball is in flight during a try or tap for goal.

4-3-1 Setting Direction of Initial Arrow
A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball.

4-3-1 is stating player control. However, during a throw-in, this doesn't exist. Therefore, once there is player control after the throw-in, I would say you would set the arrow in the opposite direction of whoever secured control. So if B is making the throw-in and A steals it, under my thinking team B would get the first AP.

That's probably way too much thinking and probably way, way off. But, that's what I've got.

But, I can see going with Bob on this one and using 2-3. Either coach probably wouldn't say a thing if you gave team B the first AP.

Either way, if this occurred, you can bet I'd blow it dead and take care of it ASAP. Fire away...

[Gimlet25id]

Originally Posted by OHBBREF

by definition player control can only exist on the floor holding ot dribbling the ball - and not durring a jump ball -
so you could only set the arrow when the throw-in after the basket is legally completed, the arrow would be set to the other team!

I have to disagree with this. The throw in doesn't have to be completed in this case. It would in AP throw in's which this isn't one of those.

Rule 4-3 art. 2,3. When setting the INITIAL direction the ball only has to be @ the disposal of the thrower.

[tjones1]

Originally Posted by Gimlet25id

I have to disagree with this. The throw in doesn't have to be completed in this case. It would in AP throw in's which this isn't one of those.

Rule 4-3 art. 2,3. When setting the INITIAL direction the ball only has to be @ the disposal of the thrower.

But there aren't any fouls, free throws, or violations. The only thing you've had is 3 points for team A.

[Back In The Saddle]

If it isn't covered by rule, and it appears that it isn't, then look for a precedent. If the jump ball is tapped out of bounds, when is the arrow set? When the ball is at the disposal of the thrower? If there is a common foul during the jump, when is the arrow set? When the ball is at the disposal of the thrower? So why wouldn't you set the arrow after a basket off the jump when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower?

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

If the jump ball is tapped out of bounds, when is the arrow set? When the ball is at the disposal of the thrower? If there is a common foul during the jump, when is the arrow set? When the ball is at the disposal of the thrower? So why wouldn't you set the arrow after a basket off the jump when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower?

Somebody agrees with me!!

[tjones1]

Hmmm, well thinking a little more, I think I'm on board with at the disposal of the thrower now. Due to the fact, that if it wasn't set at that point, and the thrower broke the plane and team A grabbed the ball and you had a held ball...who would you give the ball to if the AP hasn't been set? Using the theory of once the throw-in is complete, if you had a held ball, you'd have to re-jump it since the AP wasn't set.

I'm going with at the disposal of the thrower.

[TheSlav]

sign the kid up for volleyball.