substitute or not

[som44]

After the ball becomes live to begin the first quarter the offficial notices that A-1 is wearing an illegal jersey. A-1 plays the entire first quarter and enters the court to start the second quarter. Official assesses A-1 with a technical foul. Is the official correct?

My question--is A-1 consided a substitute at the start of the second quarter or is he still considered a starter? Based upon 10-3 article 2 (penalty) this makes a real difference to the above question. This was discussed tonight at one of our meetings and we could not reach agreement. Any help would be appreciated.

[Scrapper1]

If the ref noticed the illegal jersey in the first quarter, why did he allow the player to continue to play with it?

I think the official is correct, tho. Why does it matter if the player is a sub or not?

[Nevadaref]

No, the official is incorrect. This has to be caught prior to the ball becoming live to start the game or the player must exit the game and then re-enter. During the intermission between quarters the five players are still players. No substitution has taken place.

RULE 10, SECTION 3 PLAYER TECHNICAL
A player shall not:
...
ART. 2 . . . W ear an illegal number or an illegal shirt or illegal pants/skirt.
PENALTY Art. 2) Each violation is penalized one time if discovered prior to ball becoming live for each designated starter and each substitute who enters.

[Zoochy]

Rule change 4-34-1, 2. PLAYERS/BENCH PERSONNEL.
I always thought the time frame between quarters is concidered to be 'intermission'. So, now during intermission, all team members are bench personnel.
If A1 comes back onto the court, he/she can be assesed a 'T' for illegal uniform. NO?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

No, the official is incorrect. This has to be caught prior to the ball becoming live to start the game or the player must exit the game and then re-enter. During the intermission between quarters the five players are still players. No substitution has taken place.

RULE 10, SECTION 3 PLAYER TECHNICAL
A player shall not:
...
ART. 2 . . . W ear an illegal number or an illegal shirt or illegal pants/skirt.
PENALTY Art. 2) Each violation is penalized one time if discovered prior to ball becoming live for each designated starter and each substitute who enters.

You may want to check out case book play 3.4.SitB too--"The five players of B cannot be penalized unless they are replaced and are penalized before the ball becomes live on return".

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by som44

After the ball becomes live to begin the first quarter the offficial notices that A-1 is wearing an illegal jersey. A-1 plays the entire first quarter and enters the court to start the second quarter. Official assesses A-1 with a technical foul. Is the official correct?

My question--is A-1 consided a substitute at the start of the second quarter or is he still considered a starter? Based upon 10-3 article 2 (penalty) this makes a real difference to the above question. This was discussed tonight at one of our meetings and we could not reach agreement. Any help would be appreciated.

See casebook play 3.4SitB. A1 was never replaced.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

If the ref noticed the illegal jersey in the first quarter, why did he allow the player to continue to play with it?

I think the official is correct, tho. Why does it matter if the player is a sub or not?

It matters. You can't penalize 'em after they're in the game. If they go out and try to re-enter though, you can penalize them if you catch 'em before the ball becomes live. If they haven't been substituted for between quarters, you can't penalize them.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

Rule change 4-34-1, 2. PLAYERS/BENCH PERSONNEL.
I always thought the time frame between quarters is concidered to be 'intermission'. So, now during intermission, all team members are bench personnel.
If A1 comes back onto the court, he/she can be assesed a 'T' for illegal uniform. NO?

No. A1 was never replaced by another player.

[Zoochy]

JR, thanks for the help.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

JR, thanks for the help.

Finally found the place, eh Zooch?

Welcome to this forum.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It matters. You can't penalize 'em after they're in the game. If they go out and try to re-enter though, you can penalize them if you catch 'em before the ball becomes live.

So then as soon you notice it, send the kid out for having his shirt untucked.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So then as soon you notice it, send the kid out for having his shirt untucked.

If it's a dead ball and if the player hasn't already addressed the problem.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

So then as soon you notice it, send the kid out for having his shirt untucked.

Whatintheck are you talking about?

Wearing an illegal shirt is completely different than wearing a legal shirt that is untucked. They have completely different penalties.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Whatintheck are you talking about?

It was a joke. I meant to just find a reason to send the kid out so he'd have to be replaced. Then when he comes back in. . .

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It was a joke. I meant to just find a reason to send the kid out so he'd have to be replaced. Then when he comes back in. . .

Oh.

Nevermind then.