Substitute Pitcher

[EMD]

RE: Substitute Pitcher

ORB only: Can a pitcher be substituted for while a batter has an existing count? Under ORB a pitcher must continue to pitch to the first batter of the game until he is put out or reach base, then the pitcher may be substituted.

I have reviewed ORB about substitution, pitcher and batter; however I have not found any rule the specifically prohibit this action. Am I missing something, if so, please direct me to the proper rule.

Thank you

[mcrowder]

You mean OBR.

Except for the first batter a pitcher faces, there is no restriction prohibiting removing a pitcher during an at bat... substitute pitcher begins on that batter with the existing count.

[Bfair]

Originally posted by mcrowder
You mean OBR.

Except for the first batter a pitcher faces, there is no restriction prohibiting removing a pitcher during an at bat... substitute pitcher begins on that batter with the existing count.

On the contrary.........in OBR if the coach makes a visit and leaves the pitcher in the game, then he cannot make a second visit to remove him while that same batter is at bat. If he attempts to, then you advise him that he cannot. If he continues to make that 2nd visit, then you eject the coach, require the pitcher to finish the batter (or the 3rd out of the inning), and then remove the pitcher for the coach's 2nd (illegal) trip during the same batter.

This is not true for Fed. While Fed provides their 3 free visits without removing the pitcher, all those visits can legally occur during the same AB of a batter.


Just my opinion,

Freix

[DG]

Originally posted by Bfair

On the contrary.........in OBR if the coach makes a visit and leaves the pitcher in the game, then he cannot make a second visit to remove him while that same batter is at bat. If he attempts to, then you advise him that he cannot. If he continues to make that 2nd visit, then you eject the coach, require the pitcher to finish the batter (or the 3rd out of the inning), and then remove the pitcher for the coach's 2nd (illegal) trip during the same batter.

This is not true for Fed. While Fed provides their 3 free visits without removing the pitcher, all those visits can legally occur during the same AB of a batter.


Just my opinion,

Freix

Interesting. I have never seen a coach try to visit the same pitcher twice during the same batter's at bat, but I understand Bobby Cox got ejected for trying this once upon a time.

[EMD]

Soooo, to clear this up:

Able at bat, coach can visit the pitcher one time, second attempt to visit while Able is at bat coach is removed from the game, pitcher completes his pitches to Able until he is out or becomes a Runner. Then pitcher is removed. OBR 8.06 (b)(c)

How does this relate to the following situation:

3 rd inning, one out, Baker at bat, 1-0 count, can the coach replace the pitcher? No other previous visit to the mound. ORB rule 3.05 (a)(b) in my opinion the rule reference the first batter of the game, or is it inning? Can this be interpreted to mean that the pitcher will continue to pitch to Baker until he is out or on base? Then allow the substitution?

thanks

[DG]

Originally posted by EMD
Soooo, to clear this up:

Able at bat, coach can visit the pitcher one time, second attempt to visit while Able is at bat coach is removed from the game, pitcher completes his pitches to Able until he is out or becomes a Runner. Then pitcher is removed. OBR 8.06 (b)(c)

How does this relate to the following situation:

3 rd inning, one out, Baker at bat, 1-0 count, can the coach replace the pitcher? No other previous visit to the mound. ORB rule 3.05 (a)(b) in my opinion the rule reference the first batter of the game, or is it inning? Can this be interpreted to mean that the pitcher will continue to pitch to Baker until he is out or on base? Then allow the substitution?

thanks

Assuming the pitcher pitching to Baker was the starter, he can be replaced since he pitched to the first batter he faced, in the first inning. 3.05a refers to the fisrt batter of the game. 3.05b requires any substitute pitcher to pitch to the batter he was brought in to face, or any substitute batter until that batter has completed his at bat, or if the defense ends the inning. This could happen if the substitute pitcher came in, picked a runner off 1b for the 3rd out without throwing a pitch to the batter. He would not have to return next inning to pitch to one batter.

[EMD]

Then; if Baker is replaced with the count at 1-0 with Charlie who takes the count to 3-0. I understand the rule to say the Charlie must complete pitch to the batter until he out or on base and/ or the inning is complete. Because this the first batter he is pitching. Is this correct? For example, the batter is Frank, 2 out count is 1-0. Are the following legal?

A) Pitcher Baker is replaced with P-Charlie, who picks off the runner to end the inning, P-Charlie is not required to pitch to Frank to start the next inning?

B) Pitcher Baker is replaced with P-Charlie, who ask the coach to replace him while Frank is at bat, he can be replaced? Or, is he required to complete his pitch to Frank of until the next out or reaches base? (which ever comes first).

C) Pitcher Baker is replaced with P-Charlie, P-Charlie is a wild one so the coach call times to visit the mound, then after next pitch he calls time to visit the mound. Then do you apply the 2 visit/ same batter rule discussed above?

Thanks

[DG]

Originally posted by EMD
Then; if Baker is replaced with the count at 1-0 with Charlie who takes the count to 3-0. I understand the rule to say the Charlie must complete pitch to the batter until he out or on base and/ or the inning is complete. Because this the first batter he is pitching. Is this correct? For example, the batter is Frank, 2 out count is 1-0. Are the following legal?

A) Pitcher Baker is replaced with P-Charlie, who picks off the runner to end the inning, P-Charlie is not required to pitch to Frank to start the next inning?

B) Pitcher Baker is replaced with P-Charlie, who ask the coach to replace him while Frank is at bat, he can be replaced? Or, is he required to complete his pitch to Frank of until the next out or reaches base? (which ever comes first).

C) Pitcher Baker is replaced with P-Charlie, P-Charlie is a wild one so the coach call times to visit the mound, then after next pitch he calls time to visit the mound. Then do you apply the 2 visit/ same batter rule discussed above?

Thanks

Confusing post. Baker was the batter in original sitch, now he is pitcher. And the first sentence here sounds like Charlie was both a batter and a pitcher. So I will jump to A, B, and C.

A) Correct.
B) If Frank was the first batter Charlie faces he must pitch to him until he has completed his at bat, or the defense needs to make the third out before he finishes his at bat.
C) Coach can come out to visit Charlie once. But if he tries to come out again while the same batter is at bat he will be warned that he can not and if he keeps coming he will be ejected and then told that the pitcher must pitch to the batter and then be removed because of this attempted 2nd trip.

[Matthew F]

Originally posted by EMD
Then; if Baker is replaced with the count at 1-0 with Charlie who takes the count to 3-0. I understand the rule to say the Charlie must complete pitch to the batter until he out or on base and/ or the inning is complete. Because this the first batter he is pitching. Is this correct? For example, the batter is Frank, 2 out count is 1-0. Are the following legal?

A) Pitcher Baker is replaced with P-Charlie, who picks off the runner to end the inning, P-Charlie is not required to pitch to Frank to start the next inning? Correct, Charlie may be replaced at the start of the next inning or even during Frank's at bat in the next inning.

B) Pitcher Baker is replaced with P-Charlie, who ask the coach to replace him while Frank is at bat, he can be replaced? Or, is he required to complete his pitch to Frank of until the next out or reaches base? (which ever comes first). No, Frank cannot be replaced until the conditions you mentioned have been met or sitch A, above, has played out.

C) Pitcher Baker is replaced with P-Charlie, P-Charlie is a wild one so the coach call times to visit the mound, then after next pitch he calls time to visit the mound. Then do you apply the 2 visit/ same batter rule discussed above? Warn the coach that he cannot make the visit. If he still does, eject him and notify the manager that a new pitcher will be required for the next batter. Charlie must complete his obligation as stated in sitch A & B, above.

Thanks

OBR 3.05 and 8.06 cover pitcher substitutions and visits

[Matthew F]

I like the way DG calls them!

[Bfair]

Originally posted by EMD
Soooo, to clear this up:

Able at bat, coach can visit the pitcher one time, second attempt to visit while Able is at bat coach is removed from the game, pitcher completes his pitches to Able until he is out or becomes a Runner. Then pitcher is removed. OBR 8.06 (b)(c)

NO......he's not ejected for his second ATTEMPT to visit.
He's ejected for his second visit.

You merely advise the coach that he cannot visit the mound a second time with the same batter at the plate as during his first visit. If the coach heeds the instructions, then no problems exist. If the coach ignores your instructions he is ejected for that very reason. Since he ignored the instructions and MADE the second trip, the pitcher is then forced to meet his pitching requirements, but removed after those obligations are met as a result of the coach's second trip.

Just my opinion,

Freix