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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 01:13pm
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Three Point signal in 2 man crew

At local clinic, we discussed three point signal for officials when working two man crew. When the shot goes up in lead's area, trail should mirror lead when shot goes in. When shot goes up in trail's area, I was taught the lead does not mirror made basket, but many of our veteran officials told me you always mirror made three point basket. What is correct?
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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 01:14pm
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usually the Trail always signals made 3point baskets -- in games I work I prefer if the lead only marks shots in his primary and the made signal is up to Trail -- if lead wants to mirror no big deal but not necessary IMO
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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 01:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodibuck
At local clinic, we discussed three point signal for officials when working two man crew. When the shot goes up in lead's area, trail should mirror lead when shot goes in. When shot goes up in trail's area, I was taught the lead does not mirror made basket, but many of our veteran officials told me you always mirror made three point basket. What is correct?
Which is correct?

When shot goes up in trail's area...the lead does not mirror made basket.
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Last edited by Raymond; Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 01:19pm.
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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 01:42pm
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The first example is correct by NF standards. But the place you work might have a different standard. I do not think it really matters what you do as long as you are both doing the same things.

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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 03:05pm
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In 2-man the 3 pt shot is mirrored by both (NFHS), IF it's a shot from the corner the lead shows it's a 3 pt attempt, if it goes in, give the 3 signal and the trail will mirror and vice versa for a shot in the trail's primary..
now in 3 man the lead never mirrors the made 3 pt shot, they may give the signal for a 3 pt attempt, but as soon as the new trail picks up that it is an attempt the lead can go back to what they are supposed to be watching in the post and if it goes in let the trail and center mirror each other!
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Last edited by jritchie; Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 03:08pm.
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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 04:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jritchie
In 2-man the 3 pt shot is mirrored by both (NFHS), IF it's a shot from the corner the lead shows it's a 3 pt attempt, if it goes in, give the 3 signal and the trail will mirror and vice versa for a shot in the trail's primary..
now in 3 man the lead never mirrors the made 3 pt shot, they may give the signal for a 3 pt attempt, but as soon as the new trail picks up that it is an attempt the lead can go back to what they are supposed to be watching in the post and if it goes in let the trail and center mirror each other!

Nope in NFHS only the trail mirrors on the 3.

Both officials mark and score their own, and trail mirrors the score and not the mark on lead's primary.
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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 04:24pm
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For me anyway it's funny this should be brought up. All of a sudden last year I worked with 4 different partners in different games that would be at lead and although they would signal that it was a three would then put their hand back down when the shot went in. Around here it's always been both lead and trail signal the made three point basket. Now all of a sudden they seem to be getting some different instruction or are confusing 3 man and 2 man mechanics. They were all relatively new officials.

It caused me some confusion because if I was trail my eyes would be backside when the ball is down in the far corner. Once the shot was up I could see peripherally that the lead was signaling three. But then when the shot went in and I looked to verify and then mirror the signal I either saw a hand going down, (and nothing else going up), or the lead had already put their hand down. So I was left wondering if they had changed their mind or what. Thats why both should signal the made basket in two man. In 3-man you have two verifying and in 2-man you have two verifying. It avoids confusion.

Last edited by sj; Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 04:31pm.
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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 04:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindzebra
Nope in NFHS only the trail mirrors on the 3.

Both officials mark and score their own, and trail mirrors the score and not the mark on lead's primary.
Yup, right out of the NFHS mechanics book....

- "When a player attempts a three-point field goal, the official whose area the player is in will signal..."
- "If the three-point attempt is successful, the covering official will signal..."
- "When the Trail official signals a successful three-point attempt, the Lead official shall not mirror the signal"
- When the Lead official signals a successful three-point attempt, the Trail official shall mirror the signal."

The rationale for the mechanic is that the trail is usually more easily seen from the scoring table.

Last edited by Jurassic Referee; Fri Nov 03, 2006 at 04:46pm.
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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 06:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jodibuck
At local clinic, we discussed three point signal for officials when working two man crew. When the shot goes up in lead's area, trail should mirror lead when shot goes in. When shot goes up in trail's area, I was taught the lead does not mirror made basket, but many of our veteran officials told me you always mirror made three point basket. What is correct?
As several have pointed out, the correct way in NFHS is that the lead does not mirror the made basket when the trail has it.

I have received sage advice from some excellent officials I know who work both HS and college ball, "work the game that is in the gym that night." In other words, ref an NHFS game like an NFHS game. I love that philosophy and when I work an NFHS game I use HS mechanics and when I work a CC game I use college mechanics. You really can't go wrong that way.

I know that some states come up with some variations on mechanics, but I've never heard of a state that monkeys with the 2-person 3-point mechanics.

Sounds like you were talking to some veterans that need to crack that official's manual for the first time in about a decade.
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Old Fri Nov 03, 2006, 11:12pm
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We never had lead mirror. But, if lead marked and trail could pick up on it, trail took the mark and any subsequent signal. Reasoning was that in 2-man, the lead had a lot to look at and this supposedly freed him up to concentrate on rebounding action. Never really bought into that, but if you work with the same partner as we did, it seemed to work well.

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Old Sat Nov 04, 2006, 03:50pm
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Under FIBA it goes like this
Three points in Trails area, as it is for evryone (I think) show the signals, only trail. Lead does nothing (he shouldn't be looking at the ball up there anyway so if he does you know he's looking at the wrong thing, anyway
If shot goes up along base Lead holds "three-point attempt" signal. Trail Mirrors, Lead holds this until he see trail mirroring, he then takes the hand down- even if the shot goes in! (if he's unsure if trail see's he can hold the three fingers up, but lead should never show "made three point attempt".)

But again that's fiba, it only applies to Olympics, world cups and other small stuff ^^
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