fashion police?

[Junker]

I was at our state rules meeting last night. I would estimate we spent 2/3 of our time talking about uniform issues (headbands, wristbands, jewelry, etc.) It was all good information to have, but to me, there are more important issues to discuss, especially when we actually have some coaches in attendance and listening. Did anyone else have a similar experience this year.

[tjones1]

Yup. Our RI even stated that this year we are worrying about uniforms the most. He also got the point across to the coaches that there's no warning for the coaching box. It's one and you're done.

[Junker]

I'm glad to hear it's not just us. I wish they would just make it all illegal or make it all legal. Like I said, to me there are more important things we could be dealing with. Great for you guys on the coaching box. We don't have that here (our boys coaches are seated), but it's good for you to have the state taking a hard stand on it.

[tjones1]

It's going to be interesting the next few years, regarding the coaching box. Personally, I think it's going to go a way within the next few years. These coaches in IL just don't realize how good they have it.

[deecee]

even in SoCAL it was a huge POI -- I mean how can these players here worry about uniforms they have more important things to worry about like whos house they will have their party at and if daddy will buy them that bmw they wanted.

On a serious note however I hate the fashion police idea but it was drilled to much to us that the FED wants it dealt with this is one thing my pride will have to be swallowed and I will have to be anal about it. I dont like it but it wasn't just mentioned in passing. After 10 slides and several top officials and administrators going over it and about 1 hour of brainwashing I have succumbed. In all games starting in December -- which is when our tourneys start I will be enforcing these rules -- the higher the level the more anal I will be.

My only fear with the way this went and will go is that there will be several officials -- more rather than fewer -- (the reason I feel this way is that I would rahther build relationships with these younger players who I as a ef would hope to see again at the higher levels and already have a repore as someone who will work with players and coaches than be an a$$ -- JMO)who will treat jimmy on the freshman squad with the same letter of the law attitude as Franky on the Varsity squad. I think the uniform rules should be a pyramid of severity of punishment. The lower levels in these cases should be allowed to almost get away with murder before assessing T's and ejections and whistles and arm movements and what not. However at the varsity level after game 1 there should be no need to offer more than 1 warning. These coaches should know and the kids what's acceptable or not and it should be smooth sailing. I guarantee if any official T's up a kid on a varsity squad for one of these infractions as long as that coach is working it will never happen again -- that I will guarantee. Unless Chuck or JR start coaching that is, then we could have many recurring incidents for rogue fishnets on the court but I hope I dont see that day anytime soon.

[Junker]

We let our girls coaches stand and I really don't mind it. I think it can lead to good communication, but the box has to be enforced. Our state put the boys coaches on the bench and the current head of the state says they will not get up again as long as he is in charge.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by deecee

even in SoCAL it was a huge POI -- I mean how can these players here worry about uniforms they have more important things to worry about like whos house they will have their party at and if daddy will buy them that bmw they wanted.

On a serious note however I hate the fashion police idea but it was drilled to much to us that the FED wants it dealt with this is one thing my pride will have to be swallowed and I will have to be anal about it. I dont like it but it wasn't just mentioned in passing. After 10 slides and several top officials and administrators going over it and about 1 hour of brainwashing I have succumbed. In all games starting in December -- which is when our tourneys start I will be enforcing these rules -- the higher the level the more anal I will be.

My only fear with the way this went and will go is that there will be several officials -- more rather than fewer -- (the reason I feel this way is that I would rahther build relationships with these younger players who I as a ef would hope to see again at the higher levels and already have a repore as someone who will work with players and coaches than be an a$$ -- JMO)who will treat jimmy on the freshman squad with the same letter of the law attitude as Franky on the Varsity squad. I think the uniform rules should be a pyramid of severity of punishment. The lower levels in these cases should be allowed to almost get away with murder before assessing T's and ejections and whistles and arm movements and what not. However at the varsity level after game 1 there should be no need to offer more than 1 warning. These coaches should know and the kids what's acceptable or not and it should be smooth sailing. I guarantee if any official T's up a kid on a varsity squad for one of these infractions as long as that coach is working it will never happen again -- that I will guarantee. Unless Chuck or JR start coaching that is, then we could have many recurring incidents for rogue fishnets on the court but I hope I dont see that day anytime soon.

Interesting, when it comes to sportsmanship, most officials, including me, crack down on unsportsmanlike conduct more at the lower levels, and then talk to the kids a little more as they move up. It's all in how you approach it. I take the nip it in the bud stance and take care of business more in lower level games. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I haven't heard this stance from too many officials.

[deecee]

as JR likes to say APPLES TO ORANGES -- or is is CARS TO BURGERS

unsportsmanlike and uniform issues are 2 different things.

[Junker]

Absolutely. I let a little more go uniform wise at the lower levels because they are a little younger. I don't expect a freshman in high school to have different colored undershirts and such. I guess I view the lower level games as more of a learning environment. I always inform coaches and the players about the uniform violations, but more often than not I let them in the game. Of course this is the total opposite of my view on sportsmanship where I take very little unsportsmanlike behavior from lower level players and coaches. Maybe I need to work on my own consistancy

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

The lower levels in these cases should be allowed to almost get away with murder before assessing T's and ejections and whistles and arm movements and what not. However at the varsity level after game 1 there should be no need to offer more than 1 warning. These coaches should know and the kids what's acceptable or not and it should be smooth sailing. I guarantee if any official T's up a kid on a varsity squad for one of these infractions as long as that coach is working it will never happen again -- that I will guarantee. Unless Chuck or JR start coaching that is, then we could have many recurring incidents for rogue fishnets on the court but I hope I dont see that day anytime soon.

Are these uniform infractions "T"-able offenses? I thought we were just removing players from the game until they corrected their infraction(s).

[deecee]

if a player doesn't get it or a team keeps being addressed for the same infraction what are the options?

If i have to address 3 different subs about something after I have told the coach to make sure to fix X there is only so much talking one can do and eventually a punishment has to be doled out. what do you guys think.

I mean a T is last option but it is an option.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

if a player doesn't get it or a team keeps being addressed for the same infraction what are the options?

If i have to address 3 different subs about something after I have told the coach to make sure to fix X there is only so much talking one can do and eventually a punishment has to be doled out. what do you guys think.

I mean a T is last option but it is an option.

I hoping when you send the number 1 D-1 recruit in the conference to the bench for a uniform infraction that message reverberates to all those in attendance.

[Junker]

You can not throw a T for most uniform infractions. All you can do is keep sending them to the bench. The only uniform infractions that warrant a T are wearing an illigal numer, shirt or pants/skirt. Penalties for other infractions such as an illegal headband is they do not participate until it is changed.

[deecee]

Let me just say that the day I make a call and worry what those in attendance think about it should be the last day I work as an official.

Secondly if I ask said number 1 D-1 recruit to remove an arm band and he comes back in the game with the same arm band now what-- Do I say "Hey number 1 D-1 recruit I asked you to remove that and you decided that you wont so since you are the number 1 D-1 recruit I will bow to simply be in your presence." As soft as some of you might think I am for this guy to be the Number 1 D-1 recruit he should know that if an official asks him to fix something he should.

So I can see what you will do -- but I will at the least asses a delay of game warning to said team for forcing me to stop the game while said player had to fix something I ALREADY asked him to fix. If its the second warning then a T will be administered. But since he is the Numbe 1 D-1 recruit maybe I should just not do that and give him my whistle as well or maybe give it to a fan because I am SOO concerned what they think of my calls.

Unless you thought by last option you figured that my last option was my first option. I expected more from you badnews but I try and treat every player the same sometimes thats tough like in this instance -- I mean the number 1 D-1 recruit. I should only be grateful to be in his presence. [/endsarcasm]

[edit]Junker what do you do for the same infraction repeated by the same player or team after it has been clearly addressed? There has to be a penalty in place than just saying hey go back to the bench and get it fixed again.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

Let me just say that the day I make a call and worry what those in attendance think about it should be the last day I work as an official.

Since you seem to not comprehend what I said I'll spell it out for you.

Those in attendance = coaches

Once #1 D-1 recruit gets sent to bench I'm thinking the coach doesn't want it to happen again to him/her or any other player(s) on the team. If you want to whack someone, whack any thick-skulled head coach when he/she comes out the box to argue your nit-picking of the rules.