fashion police?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

Let me just say that the day I make a call and worry what those in attendance think about it should be the last day I work as an official.

Since you seem to not comprehend the message I was trying to convey I'll spell it out for you.

Those in attendance = coaches

Once #1 D-1 recruit gets sent to bench I'm thinking the coach doesn't want it to happen again to him/her or any other player(s) on the team. If you want to whack someone, whack any thick-skulled head coach who comes out the box to argue your nit-picking of the rules.

Originally Posted by deecee

...for forcing me to stop the game while said player had to fix something I ALREADY asked him to fix.

You don't stop the game for him/her to fix it, you send him/her back out the game, or better yet, notice it while he/she (no, i'm not talking about transvestites) is at the scorer's table and do not allow him/her to check into the game.

[Junker]

The player simply is not allowed on the floor until the uniform violation is taken care of. I don't know how it could go on reapeatedly as most kids want to play above all. There is no T in the book on this and one cannot be called.

[deecee]

It depends on how the coach approaches me -- just because he comes out or question this doesn't mean I am going to whack him right away. Use common sense.

Besides this is how THIS conversation will go

Coach: How could you go that coach?
Me: Coach I have asked him to address this same issue about 5 minutes ago? I also let you know of why I sent him back to the bench last time you tried to substitute him in did I not?
Coach: Yes you did but how could you T me up or give me a second delay (whatever it was)?
Me: Coach how could you not fix something I asked you to just 5 minutes ago? how could your player not fix it as well after I asked him as well? Coach what else am I supposed to do when I ask you and your player to do something and both of you ignore me?
----now how this will continue if this is you
Badnews: Coach I am sorry that this upsets you and your Number1 D-1 recruit let me just recind my T (or whatever the penalty was).
Coach: Good boy, good boy -- heres a treat.

I mean really I am the last person who wants to give a T and from past posts I have made it clear that I am more lenient giving T's but dont mistake that for me not having the testicular fortitude to have to call one when players and coaches are just ignoring what I am asking them to do. My leniency should not reflect on my ability to have to be authoritative I just approach it differently then some guys here and by the time I give out a T usually players, coaches, administration, fans, even Bill Walton will know why said T was handed out. Its not really my fault that a thick skulled coach cannot grasp the concept of -- "Coach your players cannot enter the game with an arm band on their bicep" -- and coach looks at me and says "Ok" then sends a player to sub in with bicep band and I send said player back out to fix it and tell the coach "Coach I just told you they cannot do that". Honestly next time I would not even beckon said sub into the game unless there were others there -- and if said sub had bicep band I would send him back out and penalize with a delay of game. If thats the second one they hey its a T -- but nowhere there will I feel guilty because I spelled it out to the coach and I would have mentioned it to the sub and I would have told the coach earlier that these infractions I will make the sub wait till the following dead ball to enter the game.

His lack of enforcing his responsbilities is not my problem. I tried to work with him and address it but after a while you HAVE TO transition from talk to action.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by deecee

Coach: How could you go that coach?
Me: Coach I have asked him to address this same issue about 5 minutes ago? I also let you know of why I sent him back to the bench last time you tried to substitute him in did I not?
Coach: Yes you did but how could you T me up or give me a second delay (whatever it was)?
Me: Coach how could you not fix something I asked you to just 5 minutes ago? how could your player not fix it as well after I asked him as well? Coach what else am I supposed to do when I ask you and your player to do something and both of you ignore me?
----now how this will continue if this is you
edited by BNRBadnews: Coach, your player cannot participate with that uniform infraction. Everytime he attempts to enter the game I going to put up a stop sign and send him back to the bench.
Coach: Are you SERIOUS?!?!
Badnews: Yes sir.

Now I know you can't read AND you're an a$$hole. But I digress.

If that's how coaches and players around your area are then there is something very wrong with the public education system where you live (as witnessed by your lack of comprehension and your inability to interpret anything that is not explicitly spelled out for you).

What kind of dumb-@$$ coach would keep allowing his player to ATTEMPT to re-enter the game with the same dumb-@$$ uniform infraction over and over again. And I would think the player would get tired of being sent out of the game. But hey, maybe that's how they play the game in your area. Must be a regional thing.

By your logic, you apparently have whacked your share of players for failure to keep their shirts tucked, right???

wait, let's see The Superintendent Husband

Originally Posted by deecee

Maybe I am just different but I can for see a possible volatile situation on the horizon and attempt to fix it before it gets there. Thats just me.

A player says my partnerscall was bullpoop and well that will get him a T.

I have seen many Ts given that in my opinion shouldn't have because

a) the officials didnt try and defuse anything that led up to the T
b) the officials put themselves in those situations to give the T rather than reading the situation -- referring to the you know the coach is pissed so you report and just give him a look like 'what now?' -- aka leading
c) overly judicious officials
d) officials with no common sense

most T's I have seen have fallen under those categories. I can remember all 5 T's I have given

1 -- player just shoves an opponent in the back during a screen away from the ball (flagrant was to harsh -- I thought maybe even the T was to harsh since the player only was moved about a foot --but the T had to be called because the game was going down the wrong direction)
2 -- double T during jump ball -- player getting up from on top the player gently nudges the player below him who gets up and shoves him back.
3 -- coach getting blown out was frustrated and for 1 whole quarter was just being a pain in the a$$ -- i tried to reason but when that failed I hated to but at least it got him sitting and quiet
4 -- my partner makes a call and is walking away and coach says "what a horsepoop call and everyone knows it" -- I waited a second to see if my partner heard it so he could deal with it then I dealt with it.
5 -- Player passes the ball to the 6th player in the 3rd row of the bleacher and gets upset with himself so he yells out "f___" well it was loud enough for me to hear it about 10 feet away (couldve probably heard it 20 feet away) so it cost him.

[RookieDude]

deecee...as a fellow official, I appreciate your enthusiasm.
But, that's about where my appreciation ends.
You are a realatively new official...at least you sound like one...and you come in here talking to much, IMO.

Give it a couple of years before you start spouting philosophies and incorrect rule procedures. Heck, you're still wet behind the ears and you're talking like you are a know it all. You seem argumentative when a veteran official trys to talk to you. Dude, that's not going to get you far...at least not in my region.

As far as letting lower level players (Frosh, Soph, JV) get away with things.
Again, you have a total opposite view of what the veterans around here want. We like the lower level officials to enforce the rules the way they are written...that way when the players get up to Varsity ball...we don't have to "train" them...they already know what is expected. SHOW the veterans you have the "balls" you talk about having instead of just TALKING.

And listen a little more...IMO.
Take it or leave it.

[refnrev]

I, for one, wish the coaches would just get this uniform stuff taken care of once and for all. I'm tired of "baby sitting" teams about uniform violations. This fall I have not had one girl's game -- USSF soccer, HS volleyball, or MS basketball that I haven't had to make the girls unroll their stupid shorts before the game starts or make them fix them during play! Then they whine, "Why can't we wear them rolled?" To which I say, "Because the rules say they have to be worn as they were manufactured to be worn." Or there are the boys who want to wear their shorts half-way down their butts and their shirts hanging out all of the time. This is the coaches' job. not ours!

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by deecee

most T's I have seen have fallen under those categories. I can remember all 5 T's I have given

1 -- player just shoves an opponent in the back during a screen away from the ball (flagrant was to harsh -- I thought maybe even the T was to harsh since the player only was moved about a foot --but the T had to be called because the game was going down the wrong direction)

Live ball, conact? Sounds like one that shouldn't have been called.

Mregor

[refnrev]

Shouldn't you have given an intentional rather than a T?

[Nevadaref]

or a flagrant PERSONAL foul.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by deecee

Let me just say that the day I make a call and worry what those in attendance think about it should be the last day I work as an official.

Secondly if I ask said number 1 D-1 recruit to remove an arm band and he comes back in the game with the same arm band now what-- Do I say "Hey number 1 D-1 recruit I asked you to remove that and you decided that you wont so since you are the number 1 D-1 recruit I will bow to simply be in your presence." As soft as some of you might think I am for this guy to be the Number 1 D-1 recruit he should know that if an official asks him to fix something he should.

So I can see what you will do -- but I will at the least asses a delay of game warning to said team for forcing me to stop the game while said player had to fix something I ALREADY asked him to fix. If its the second warning then a T will be administered. But since he is the Numbe 1 D-1 recruit maybe I should just not do that and give him my whistle as well or maybe give it to a fan because I am SOO concerned what they think of my calls.

Unless you thought by last option you figured that my last option was my first option. I expected more from you badnews but I try and treat every player the same sometimes thats tough like in this instance -- I mean the number 1 D-1 recruit. I should only be grateful to be in his presence. [/endsarcasm]

[edit]Junker what do you do for the same infraction repeated by the same player or team after it has been clearly addressed? There has to be a penalty in place than just saying hey go back to the bench and get it fixed again.

I like the delay-of-game warning, and it makes sense - but I don't know if it is supported by the rules. I guess you could say it is a situation in which the team is not ready to play, so therefore it is a delay situation.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

I like the delay-of-game warning, and it makes sense - but I don't know if it is supported by the rules. I guess you could say it is a situation in which the team is not ready to play, so therefore it is a delay situation.

No, David, it is not supported by the rules. It is not one of the four different warnings outlined in the rules.

You can issue an immediate "T" to a player delaying the game under the language of R10-3-6(a), but you should be very, very careful in using that one imo.

[Scrapper1]

My association's first meeting is tomorrow night, so I'm sure we will talk about all the headband/sweatband things. Personally, I hate all the fashion rules: shirts in, pants up, headband colors. Has anyone ever been confused by the wrong color headband? These rules should be enacted and enforced by coaches and AD's, in my opinion. I wish the NFHS wouldn't drop them in our laps.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

No, David, it is not supported by the rules. It is not one of the four different warnings outlined in the rules.

You can issue an immediate "T" to a player delaying the game under the language of R10-3-6(a), but you should be very, very careful in using that one imo.

I agree with the "be very careful" with that one... but I have had situations where I have come close to whacking a player for several of the "Not delivering the ball to the nearer official after it becomes dead" because they make a point of making you come get it, or "allowing" it to roll away from the officials in an unsportsmanlike manner.

BTW, what about considering that (the original situation) unsportsmanlike conduct? That's a technical foul - refusal to comply with directions given by the officials.

[Junker]

Originally Posted by drinkeii

I agree with the "be very careful" with that one... but I have had situations where I have come close to whacking a player for several of the "Not delivering the ball to the nearer official after it becomes dead" because they make a point of making you come get it, or "allowing" it to roll away from the officials in an unsportsmanlike manner.

BTW, what about considering that (the original situation) unsportsmanlike conduct? That's a technical foul - refusal to comply with directions given by the officials.

No way am I ever calling this a T, that is a huge stretch. They don't get to play until they are wearing their uniform properly. A good rule of thumb for calling T's is to call them when they will improve the game. Calling this a T will not improve your night.

[drinkeii]

Originally Posted by Junker

No way am I ever calling this a T, that is a huge stretch. They don't get to play until they are wearing their uniform properly. A good rule of thumb for calling T's is to call them when they will improve the game. Calling this a T will not improve your night.

Even in cases where the problem is repetitive? This is the third player with the same problem, or the third time with the same player having a problem? Even after warning the coach? I'm thinking of a T after these - not the first time... or even the second for that matter.