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at disposal?
In reading the rule and case book I am a little unclear what is meant by "at the disposal of the player" for calling a time out on a throw in by team B (rule 5, sec8, art3b). Would that basically mean once I start my 5 second count or even before that? From the picture in the illustrated, and verbage in the case book it sounds like the ball just has to be near A1, not in their hands to prevent team B from calling a time out, correct? Thanks.
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Ron |
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Disposal is defined in 4-4-7. The count begins when the ball is at the disposal of the team. This is the exact same instant when the other team can no longer be granted a TO.
There has been some disagreement here in the past about when that exact moment is following a basket, but whenever the official decides it is, one action begins and the other cannot occur. |
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http://www.nfhs.org/web/2006/10/2006..._rules_in.aspx SITUATION 9: With less than one minute remaining in the fourth quarter, Team A scores a field goal to tie the game. B1, standing under the basket after the score, secures the ball and begins heading to the end-line for the ensuing throw-in. A1 requests and is granted a time-out. RULING: Legal procedure. Team A may request and be granted a time-out until the ensuing throw-in begins. The throw-in count does not begin until B1 has the ball at his/her disposal and the official has begun the five-second count. So....it looks like you can grant the TO until the thrower is actually OOB and ready to throw the ball in. Unless, of course, they are deliberately delaying going OOB. For the record, when this play was still in doubt, Camron Rust took the position that the NFHS rulesmakers just agreed with. I didn't. One for Camron! |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association |
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"The throw-in count does not begin until B1 has the ball at his/her disposal and the official has begun the five-second count."
What determines when the official is to begin the 5-second count? Is this judgment, or is it defined elsewhere? Thanks for any clarification. |
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Unclear but ...
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At a camp I attended last year they said to wait until the ball was OOB. Then if team B hesitated (to set up a play etc.,) begin the count. Common sense can cover the plays that coaches teach. We were taught to toss the ball to the official and then when he hands it back etc., it takes a few seconds off the clock. Also this might cover the play where two players act like neither wants to take the ball out and thus the official waits etc., I know players today don't think too much, but there are some coaches and teams who still do ... I can see the POV from the NFHS, but then I also know that there are a lot of officials who want it all in black and white. Our state meeting this year it was interpreted that we could call TO until the count was started. HOwever, when it starts is still up to the official and his interpretation. Thanks David |
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Thanks for the responses and input, I understand it now and know how I will do it. As I mentioned on another post I have been away from officiating for two and a half years, and did not realize that it had already been discussed. Appreciate responding and helping me on an already (from the sounds of it) hashed out topic.
As an aside there have been a lot of changes to learn and adjust to!!!!!! Definite case of an old dog learning new tricks. As usually seems to be the case with officials, the referee's here in Utah have been great to make me feel welcome.
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Ron |
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Of course, mandating that this one official be the sole granter of time-out requests in this situation is silly and contrary to the NFHS rules. I'm just pointing out that this isn't going to be as simple as you might think. |
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Of course, you knew all this, but your points are well taken. Granting a TO can be hit-or-miss in this situation...especially when you let coaches request one also. It's basically just a straight judgment call anymore. |
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I agree with that!
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Yes it makes it easier for the administrating official; however, the other official now has something else to look for. Thanks David |
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along these lines....
last week, A1 had the ball out of bounds, count was in progress, and several B players signaled time out. Partner granted the time out. He quickly realized his mistake and said, basically, "No, you can't have time out." A's ball. I said no, they get the time out now, even though it was not proper, the ball is now dead. There is no provision for not awarding a time out in this situation, is there?
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