FT:At the disposal of shooter

[justacoach]

Just returned from a game officiated capably by the Pres of a local association.
L is administering first shot of 1+1, ball is in the air toward shooter, having just left L's hand. A2 quickly pulls out of 3rd marked lane spot and retreats behind 3 pt arc above FT line. T calls lane violation.
T responded to my query by telling me that the interpretation provided to him by VHSL, (State HS governing body) is that the ball is "at the disposal" as soon as it leaves L's hand. I have a hard time realizing there is any other possible interpretation for "at the disposal" as lucidly defined in NFHS rules book...4-4-7b

SECTION 4 BALL LOCATION, AT DISPOSAL

ART. 7 . . . A ball is at the disposal of a player when it is:

b. Caught by a player after it is bounced to him/her.

Any of you gentlemen have a similarly screwy interp on this definition???
Is this strictly a local aberration that we have to abide by?


Thanks for your replies

[Edited by justacoach on Jan 10th, 2004 at 09:10 PM]

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by justacoach
Any of you gentlemen have a similarly screwy interp on this definition???
Is this strictly a local aberration that we have to abide by?

Strictly local. . . to the mind of that one official

When a coach starts to cut and paste the rulebook for us, we really gotta be on our toes, guys!!

[williebfree]

Me thinks the Trail blew the call and worsened the situation by not owning up to it... OR he might need some remedial rule review.

Sorry coach, even we may make a mistake!


I think it might be time to adopt a new signature line... Sometimes wrong, never indesicive!

[BktBallRef]

Sorry coach but you're wrong.

4.4.7.b is a case play, not a rule.

[dblref]

Justacoach: Re VHSL -- where are you located in VA?

[justacoach]

Originally posted by williebfree
Me thinks the Trail blew the call and worsened the situation by not owning up to it... OR he might need some remedial rule review.

Sorry coach, even we may make a mistake!


I think it might be time to adopt a new signature line... Sometimes wrong, never indesicive!

The reason I am so conversant with this rule is I have seen it called incorrectly more times than not. I had an extended conversation with the T (assoc Pres) and he was adamant that his decision was correct based on a series of communications with VHSL who are the HS hoi polloi (Hello Juulie!!) in VA.

I have tried many times to have him visit this board but I don't think he has been here as of yet. Any suggestions for getting this guy back in line so his misinformed interp does not filter down to any more of the 150+ officials under his control??? Obviously, plain and simple reading of the relevant rules book section is not the answer.

Do you guys have any other informed sources that suggest any but the obvious interpretation in this sitch??

Again, thanks for your help

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Sorry coach but you're wrong.

4.4.7.b is a case play, not a rule.

Tony, I am not sure what you are saying. The Coach is quoting the correct rule. The ball is not at the disposable of the free throw shooter until the shooter catches the ball. If A2 cannot leave his position on the lane and get out of no man's land before A1 catches the official's pass, there is no violation. If A2 is in no man's land, then A2 is guilty of a free throw violation.

MTD, Sr.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Tony, I am not sure what you are saying.

Let me see if I can explain.

The rule is 4-4-7b, not 4.4.7b.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Sorry coach but you're wrong.

4.4.7.b is a case play, not a rule.

there is no 4.4.7 of any kind in the case book.

Gotcha!

[rainmaker]

Coach -- Great vocab! Or were you implying that I'm a member of the hoi polloi?

My suggestion about your situation is that you pick your battles. You are correct about the interp of this rule, but I'm not sure it's worth fighting for. Remind your players that "around here this is how they do it" and save your ammunition for something more important, like how to reset after the clock is incorrectly started when there are 2.4 seconds left on the clock, and you need to get the ball to the far end of the court and shoot. Or how to tell whether a shot was a try or tap in the last .3 second of a game. Or whether to grant a TO or not on an "inadvertant whistle".

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by just another ref

there is no 4.4.7 of any kind in the case book.

Gotcha!

Who said it was in the Case book?

[just another ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Who said it was in the Case book?

If it ain't in the case book, it ain't a case play with a case number. (4.4.7) Let's settle this before we get to page 8.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by just another ref
If it ain't in the case book, it ain't a case play with a case number. (4.4.7) Let's settle this before we get to page 8.

It's a helluva lot closer to being a case play than it is to being a rule.

My point: Case plays use dots, rules use dashes. Get it right next time!

[just another ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef

My point: Case plays use dots, rules use dashes. Get it right next time!

I understood your point, since you were kind enough to point out the same thing to me a while back. My point was, is this really worthy of a post just to point out this mistake. I'm done.

[Back In The Saddle]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by just another ref

Originally posted by BktBallRef

I understood your point, since you were kind enough to point out the same thing to me a while back. My point was, is this really worthy of a post just to point out this mistake. I'm done.

No, but it also counts towards the big 6000! And that's worthy of a spurious post or two