C.E. Situation ??

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Not really. The FT ends when the try is either successful or unsuccessful, or the try touches the floor or a player, or the ball becomes dead. Possession, either player/team, does not necessarily occur automatically when the FT ends. You could have a loose ball or a dead ball also. If you recognize the error before a change in possession occurs after the last wrong FT ended, then you just line 'em up and re-shoot the FT's with the correct shooter on the line.

The common criteria is that all of these activities occur after the last wrong FT ended, and that any activity that occurs after the last wrong FT ended is not cancelled, by rule.

Ok, maybe I should have said:

...I think the distinction is any activity during the FT; meaning that by the time possession is established then the FT has ended.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Ok, maybe I should have said:

...I think the distinction is any activity during the FT; meaning that by the time possession is established then the FT has ended.

I think that easier distinctions are:

1) Did the last wrong FT end? If so, everything that occurred before that is cancelled, but nothing that occurred after that is cancelled.
2) Did possession change after the last wrong FT ended? If so, you go to the POI after you shoot the substitute FT's. If not, you line up and shoot the substitute FT's.

A possession change would be a member of the non-shooting team either holding or dribbling a live ball in-bounds after the last wrong FT ended.

Make sense?

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I think that easier distinctions are:

1) Did the last wrong FT end? If so, everything that occurred before that is cancelled, but nothing that occurred after that is cancelled.
2) Did possession change after the last wrong FT ended? If so, you go to the POI after you shoot the substitute FT's. If not, you line up and shoot the substitute FT's.

A possession change would be a member of the non-shooting team either holding or dribbling a live ball in-bounds after the last wrong FT ended.

Make sense?

You almost got it...here is my change.

"1) Did the last wrong FT end? If so, everything that occurred before that is cancelled (EXCEPT the POSSESSION by the THROWER), but nothing that occurred after that is cancelled."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I think that easier distinctions are:

1) Did the last wrong FT end? If so, everything that occurred before that is cancelled, but nothing that occurred after that is cancelled.
2) Did possession change after the last wrong FT ended? If so, you go to the POI after you shoot the substitute FT's. If not, you line up and shoot the substitute FT's.

A possession change would be a member of the non-shooting team either holding or dribbling a live ball in-bounds after the last wrong FT ended.

Make sense?

It probably will once I get into rulebook a little more this weekend.

I just got my NFHS rule and case books this week (no manual yet), so I am just starting to read.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

You almost got it...here is my change.

"1) Did the last wrong FT end? If so, everything that occurred before that is cancelled (EXCEPT the POSSESSION by the THROWER), but nothing that occurred after that is cancelled."

Lah me....

If you didn't cancel the possession by the thrower before the wrong FT ended, then you would also have to count the FT's that were made during that possession by the wrong thrower.

Just for the record.....

I'm citing the way it actually is, by rule. If you want to change something, then you're trying to change the rule.

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Lah me....

If you didn't cancel the possession by the thrower before the wrong FT ended, then you would also have to count the FT's that were made during that possession by the wrong thrower.

Just for the record.....

I'm citing the way it actually is, by rule. If you want to change something, then you're trying to change the rule.

We'll have to agree to disagree then, because if you cancel EVERYTHING prior to the end of the FT, then you are canceling the possession by the throwing team. If you, cancel the possession by the throwing team, there is no change of possession when the non-throwing team gains possession after the FT ends. If there is no change of possession, then we do not go to POI.

We do go to POI in this situation, so the possession by the throwing team is not canceled...so EVERYTHING prior to the end of the FT can not possibly canceled.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

We'll have to agree to disagree then, because if you cancel EVERYTHING prior to the end of the FT, then you are canceling the possession by the throwing team. If you, cancel the possession by the throwing team, there is no change of possession when the non-throwing team gains possession after the FT ends. If there is no change of possession, then we do not go to POI.

We do go to POI in this situation, so the possession by the throwing team is not canceled...so EVERYTHING prior to the end of the FT can not possibly canceled.