Backcourt violation?

[deecee]

not to sound like an a$$ but this probably will come off as such. how do you or the people you know come up with these I mean really talk about absurd. Out of curiosity why is said official breathing down the players neck where when he pivots he hits his foot? instead of penalizing any team I think this ref should be hit with a T and flogged by rosie o'donnel

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by deecee

not to sound like an a$$

Too late.

how do you or the people you know come up with these

This was asked by a student in our New Applicants' Class.

[Kajun Ref N Texas]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Ok, here's a play that someone mentioned to me and I wanted opinions. A1 is holding the ball in his frontcourt near the midcourt line. The referee is standing nearby and is straddling the midcourt line; one foot in the frontcourt, one foot in the backcourt. A1 pivots and steps on the ref's "frontcourt" foot.

Is this a backcourt violation, just as if the official were straddling the OOB line? I think so.

But here's the tricky twist. What if we change it so that it's not the referee straddling the line, but another player instead? Is it still a backcourt violation? Because now, the OOB analogy doesn't work. It's not a violation to touch another player who is OOB while holding the ball. In that case, it's only a violation for the ball to touch the player who is OOB. So is it a backcourt violation to touch a player who is in the backcourt while holding the ball?

I just reread your original post. Are you calling an OOB violation if an official has one foot IB and one foot OB and the dribbler touches the official's IB foot?

[Jimgolf]

Remember, if we're playing official schoolyard rules, that "Electricity" applies here.

[ChuckElias]

Well, I started this thread and it has somehow morphed into something very different from what I asked about. In any case, let me say a couple things.

1) Pete Palermino is an excellent official at the D1 level. He's also a very humble person, never bragging about his accomplishments. Most of you will never know him, obviously, but if you get the chance, he's worth listening to.

2) I've been instructed at camps by more than one D1 official (working in conferences that I'd like to be in) to call the throw-in violation, regardless of pressure and/or score. Why? Video.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Well, I started this thread and it has somehow morphed into something very different from what I asked about.

Huh. That's the first time that's happened......today.

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

2) I've been instructed at camps by more than one D1 official (working in conferences that I'd like to be in) to call the throw-in violation, regardless of pressure and/or score. Why? Video.

Good point.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Well, I started this thread and it has somehow morphed into something very different from what I asked about. In any case, let me say a couple things.

1) Pete Palermino is an excellent official at the D1 level. He's also a very humble person, never bragging about his accomplishments. Most of you will never know him, obviously, but if you get the chance, he's worth listening to.

Well, you left one thing out of your response. Chuck, you are an IAABO Board Interpreter also, same as Mr. Palermino. What are your thoughts on the Board #6 Way as apparently taught by Mr. Palermino- i.e. that all violations should be called by advantage/disadvantage? Agree? Disagree?

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, you left one thing out of your response. Chuck, you are an IAABO Board Interpreter also, same as Mr. Palermino. What are your thoughts on the Board #6 Way as apparently taught by Mr. Palermino- i.e. that all violations should be called by advantage/disadvantage? Agree? Disagree?

1) I don't really know if BillyMac's description of "the Board 6 way" is accurate.

2) I don't know if Pete really does advocate BillyMac's description of the Board 6 way. I would not presume to speak for him, particularly on an intenet forum.

3) I would not agree that ALL violations should be judged on advantage/disadvantage. (For example, line violations such as OOB.)

4) I would agree that SOME violations should be judged on advantage/disadvantage. (For example, palming/carrying.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

1) I don't really know if BillyMac's description of "the Board 6 way" is accurate.

2) I don't know if Pete really does advocate BillyMac's description of the Board 6 way. I would not presume to speak for him, particularly on an intenet forum.

3) I would not agree that ALL violations should be judged on advantage/disadvantage. (For example, line violations such as OOB.)

4) I would agree that SOME violations should be judged on advantage/disadvantage. (For example, palming/carrying.)

I won't comment on #1 or #2 either because of a lack of any kind of actual knowledge.

(3)- You and I agree on that one.

(4) You and I probably agree on that one, even though we don't agree on some of the details. Personally I think that you gotta be consistent in calling palming/carrying all over the court, and I guess that the FED must kinda agree also, having made it a POE in the past. How do you answer the player that says "Why now? I've been doing it all game". Do you respond "Yes, you were palming the other times but I didn't think that it shoulda been called then". Now....3-seconds....10-seconds for a free thrower...maybe a fisted ball...fine. All violations---> never imo. Another point......I really don't think that you can teach official how to use this type of judgment. I think that it has to be learned through experience, and some officials never will learn it.... no matter what. Jmo.

[BktBallRef]

I don't think BillyMac would have face quite as much opposition to some of his thoughts if his entire demeanor didn't come across as so arrogant. "We were the first..." "...Board 6 Way."

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

How do you answer the player that says "Why now? I've been doing it all game". Do you respond "Yes, you were palming the other times but I didn't think that it shoulda been called then".

That's easy. "This time, it got you a clean look at the basket."

[IREFU2]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Ok, here's a play that someone mentioned to me and I wanted opinions. A1 is holding the ball in his frontcourt near the midcourt line. The referee is standing nearby and is straddling the midcourt line; one foot in the frontcourt, one foot in the backcourt. A1 pivots and steps on the ref's "frontcourt" foot.

Is this a backcourt violation, just as if the official were straddling the OOB line? I think so.

But here's the tricky twist. What if we change it so that it's not the referee straddling the line, but another player instead? Is it still a backcourt violation? Because now, the OOB analogy doesn't work. It's not a violation to touch another player who is OOB while holding the ball. In that case, it's only a violation for the ball to touch the player who is OOB. So is it a backcourt violation to touch a player who is in the backcourt while holding the ball?

Not backcourt and I would leave it alone totally unless the player touches the foot that is in the backcourt.