Backcourt violation?

[Jimgolf]

I saw this in a FIBA game and was wondering what the NFHS ruling would be. It's similar to one of the questions in the Backcourt Quiz, but seems a little different to me.

Player A1 is dribbling across the halfcourt line, picks up the ball while still straddling the line, drops the ball in the backcourt and picks it up again. Violation?

What if he never controls the ball while attempting to end his dribble, and fumbles in the backcourt?

In the FIBA game, a backcourt violation was called, but I think there is no "two feet and the ball" rule in FIBA. Somehow you're supposed to magically cross the line all at once.

Thanks, and I apologize if this has been asked and answered before.

[tmp44]

The only thing I may have here, depending on how the entire play happened, is an illegal dribble. No backcourt violation, because foot #2 is still in the backcourt, therefore, the player AND the ball is still considered in the backcourt.

Quick question though..in your sitch did the player dribble the ball at all on the other side of the line? Correct me if I'm wrong, guys and girls, but this would not make a difference, correct?

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by tmp44
The only thing I may have here, depending on how the entire play happened, is an illegal dribble. No backcourt violation, because foot #2 is still in the backcourt, therefore, the player AND the ball is still considered in the backcourt.

Quick question though..in your sitch did the player dribble the ball at all on the other side of the line? Correct me if I'm wrong, guys and girls, but this would not make a difference, correct?

A fumble is not a dribble, so it isn't an illegal dribble.

Jim, as long as any part of his body is touching the BC, he's still in the BC. If he's in the BC, you can't have a BC violation.

[Lotto]

No violation, since the ball is never in the frontcourt.

An interesting variation: The player who dribbles in the backcourt ends the dribble while straddling the line and fumbles the ball, as above. But here, the ball falls into the frontcourt and the player, still straddling the line, picks it up. Is this a backcourt violation?

I say yes. The fumble is not part of a dribble, so the ball is in the frontcourt when it drops into the frontcourt. The other conditions for a backcourt violation are met here.

What do you think?

[Jay R]

Just to clarify the FIBA rule. You attain FC status as soon as the ball or any part of the body touches the frontcourt. However, when a player is dribbling across the division line, an allowance is made as long as the dribbler continues forward. Otherwise, it would impossible to dribble into the front court without commiting a BC violation.

Jay

[Love this Game]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
I saw this in a FIBA game and was wondering what the NFHS ruling would be. It's similar to one of the questions in the Backcourt Quiz, but seems a little different to me.

Player A1 is dribbling across the halfcourt line, picks up the ball while still straddling the line, drops the ball in the backcourt and picks it up again. Violation?

What if he never controls the ball while attempting to end his dribble, and fumbles in the backcourt?

In the FIBA game, a backcourt violation was called, but I think there is no "two feet and the ball" rule in FIBA. Somehow you're supposed to magically cross the line all at once.

Thanks, and I apologize if this has been asked and answered before.

Just remember this for NFHS rules, 2 over, and 1 back.

You have to have all three points over before it is a back court violation.

But once you do get all three over, you only have to have one point over to have a back court violation.

[OldCoachNewRef]

All three points is only when dribbling. If fumbled into the front court and picked up and foot in backcourt, then yes, bc violation.

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by Lotto
No violation, since the ball is never in the frontcourt.

An interesting variation: The player who dribbles in the backcourt ends the dribble while straddling the line and fumbles the ball, as above. But here, the ball falls into the frontcourt and the player, still straddling the line, picks it up. Is this a backcourt violation?

I say yes. The fumble is not part of a dribble, so the ball is in the frontcourt when it drops into the frontcourt. The other conditions for a backcourt violation are met here.

What do you think?

in his Backcourt Quiz. Theoretically . . . it's a violation.

I've been watching for that for years and haven't bagged me one yet.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Lotto
An interesting variation: The player who dribbles in the backcourt ends the dribble while straddling the line and fumbles the ball, as above. But here, the ball falls into the frontcourt and the player, still straddling the line, picks it up. Is this a backcourt violation?

Yes, this is a BC violation.

Originally posted by Love this Game
Just remember this for NFHS rules, 2 over, and 1 back.

You have to have all three points over before it is a back court violation.

But once you do get all three over, you only have to have one point over to have a back court violation.

This only applies to a dribble. If the player above had lifted his foot from the BC, using the FC foot as a pivot, and then put the BC foot back down in the BC, it would be a violation. That's true, even though neither the ball or the back foot touched the FC.

Originally posted by assignmentmaker
in his Backcourt Quiz. Theoretically . . . it's a violation.

I've been watching for that for years and haven't bagged me one yet.

Not only theoretcially but also legalistically. You'll have to decide if you should call it realistically.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Aug 11th, 2005 at 12:10 PM]

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
I saw this in a FIBA game

Just by accident, right?

[tmp44]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

A fumble is not a dribble, so it isn't an illegal dribble.

Which is why I said depending on how the entire play happened (meaning if it wasn't a fumble or if another dribble occurred).....

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by tmp44
Quick question though..in your sitch did the player dribble the ball at all on the other side of the line?

Nope. Dribbled to mid-court line and stopped his dribble, with one foot in the backcourt and one in the frontcourt. Tried to pass and dropped the ball in the backcourt, then picked it up. I think at this point both feet were in the backcourt.

[lukealex]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Yes, this is a BC violation.

Here I see a player end the dribble while straddling the line. Nothing wrong with that. Fumbles the ball in the FC, picks it up, nothing wrong with that either. Does the player move either foot while straddling the line? If not, why is that a backcourt violation?

[OldCoachNewRef]

Yes, there is something wrong with that, the ball attained front court status. The 10 second count ends. The player touches the ball with his foot in the backcourt, tweet, violation

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by lukealex

Here I see a player end the dribble while straddling the line. Nothing wrong with that. Fumbles the ball in the FC, picks it up, nothing wrong with that either. Does the player move either foot while straddling the line? If not, why is that a backcourt violation?

Answer these questions...
1. Team control?
2. Ball (not player)has FC status?
3. Team A last to touch the ball before the ball returns to the backcourt.
4. Team A first to touch after ball returns to the backcourt.

If any are no...no violation.

#1. Yes...clearly since A1 was dribbling up to this point.
#2. Yes. Since the 3-point exception only applies during dribbler, the fumble causes the ball to be in the FC when it bounces.
#3. Yes. Prior to the fumble.
#4. Yes. After the fumble.