Backcourt Violation ?

[tnroundballref]

Had a play Tuesday night that I would like to get some feedback from the board.

I am trail in three whistle crew. Team A takes a shot and as it hits the rim bounds very long into team A's side front court near the baseline.Team A player runs and jumps and grabs the ball with one hand as he is going out of bounds and slings it into the back court. A team A player runs the ball down in back court. I have a backcourt violation by team A. The coach was screaming it wasn't a BV because his kid never had control of the ball in front court after the shot attempt. It was my oppinion that the kid who ran and grabbed the ball one handed did indeed have posession. I guess my question is, does two hands on the ball = posession or could it be only one hand ?

[cmathews]

Originally posted by tnroundballref
Had a play Tuesday night that I would like to get some feedback from the board.

I am trail in three whistle crew. Team A takes a shot and as it hits the rim bounds very long into team A's side front court near the baseline.Team A player runs and jumps and grabs the ball with one hand as he is going out of bounds and slings it into the back court. A team A player runs the ball down in back court. I have a backcourt violation by team A. The coach was screaming it wasn't a BV because his kid never had control of the ball in front court after the shot attempt. It was my oppinion that the kid who ran and grabbed the ball one handed did indeed have posession. I guess my question is, does two hands on the ball = posession or could it be only one hand ?

if in your opinion he had possession then you handled it correctly. I would agree with you, he had enough control/possession to throw it 50 some feet so IMO good call...

[red]

I would have called BC violation, also. I view this the same as if the ball had gone OOB after the shot. Team B would have gained possession as Team A was last to have possession. Otherwise, the OOB would be considered a jump ball, which is not the case.

[RecRef]

In situations such as this, I go on the side of no control.

Let’s look at a little different situation but one involving the same “judgment” call on your part. A1 is going for a loose ball on the court. The ball is on the player’s right side and so is B1. The A1 reaches down, contacts the ball on its side or even a underneath and flings it across the front of his body to A2 who is to the left of A1. All of this takes place while A1 is running. Would you call a travel on A1 if he took a few steps while the arm/hand with ball is moving from right to left? In my ‘judgment” he does not have control so no possession, so not travel. Now back to your question. In my “judgment” just flinging the ball back does not constitute player control.

Notice all of the “judgments?” That is the key. Unless I’m 100% sure that the player could just stand there and hold the ball with his hand in the same position as he has it in the flinging motion I don’t call control and thus no Back Court here.

[Hawks Coach]

red
The OOB analogy does not at all apply. If the ball was going out near center court off a long rebound, and A was barely able to tap the ball on a save, there would be no team control and therefore no b/c. In this case, the ability to throw the ball a good distance is taken to mean there was sufficient player control, therefore team control, therefore b/c.

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

This is another thread that we had about a 317 page discussion on last year. Cannot remember the name of the thread though

[JugglingReferee]

I too have a BC violation. It sounds clearly, from your desc, that possession was gained.

[DJ]

As Mregor a man of few words would say,"Yup!"

[Lotto]

By rule, team control is established on a rebound when a player holds or dribbles the ball. The question of whether this is a backcourt violation comes down to whether you believe that the A player was holding the ball before he directed it towards the backcourt. My view is that if he simply redirected the ball like a volleyball setter might, then this is not control and not a violation. If he actually "grabbed" the ball in such a way that he was actually holding it with one hand, then I'd see this as control and hence as a violation.

[Bart Tyson]

I say no control. 1)We are told, while trying to gain control of a rebound or loose ball, a player reaches for the ball and directs it to the floor and it bounces back up into his hands, we have control when he grabs it and then may dribble. 2) Lets say, while this player was throwing the ball into the back court as you stated, he yelled "timeout", would you have granted it as the ball goes flighting into the BC?

[tnroundballref]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
I say no control. 1)We are told, while trying to gain control of a rebound or loose ball, a player reaches for the ball and directs it to the floor and it bounces back up into his hands, we have control when he grabs it and then may dribble. 2) Lets say, while this player was throwing the ball into the back court as you stated, he yelled "timeout", would you have granted it as the ball goes flighting into the BC?

Bart, I asked myself that very question after the game and my answer was yes,if he had requested a TO while in the air while the ball, I would have given it to him, but not after he already let go of it. He was almost cuping the ball between his hand and forearm while in the air. I felt as though he had control.

[Edited by tnroundballref on Feb 5th, 2004 at 02:36 PM]

[cmathews]

Originally posted by Bart Tyson
I say no control. 1)We are told, while trying to gain control of a rebound or loose ball, a player reaches for the ball and directs it to the floor and it bounces back up into his hands, we have control when he grabs it and then may dribble. 2) Lets say, while this player was throwing the ball into the back court as you stated, he yelled "timeout", would you have granted it as the ball goes flighting into the BC?

Guys he threw the ball 50 feet from the baseline to the backcourt, you don't do this without controlling the ball. No I would not grant the timeout as the ball goes flying into the backcourt, the player is no longer in possesion of the ball which is required to call a timeout.

Red, possesion is not a requirement of OOB, just the last to touch inbounds is all that is necessary. Your argument, while I agree with the end, is not justified. There was no team control when the shot went up, it would be B ball out of bounds yes, but because A was the last to touch it not posses it....

[Bart Tyson]

The guide line we have been given to judge control is, no control until they grab it with two hands.

[Bart Tyson]

Originally posted by cmathews

Guys he threw the ball 50 feet from the baseline to the backcourt, you don't do this without controlling the ball. No I would not grant the timeout as the ball goes flying into the backcourt, the player is no longer in possesion of the ball which is required to call a timeout.

You can't have both ways, on one hand you say "control", then you say "no TO". If he had control, then he gets the TO.

[cmathews]

Bart,
You missed my point. You're post said grant the TO while the ball is flying to the backcourt . Roundballref made my point while I was typing