player control/team control

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Ron, I think you're missing Dan's point. Juulie's post indicated that a team control foul has two conditions: 1) it is a foul by a player whose team is in control AND (2) the player who commits the foul does not have player control.

Dan's point is that the second part of that explanation is incorrect. The player MAY not have the ball; but there is still team control even if s/he does have player control. So a foul by the player in control of the ball is still a team foul, even tho it is also a player control foul. Therefore, a player control foul is a subset of team control fouls.

Both your citations are correct, but miss Dan's point.

Speaking of being missed...we miss you in the baseball thread.

You coming back any time soon?

[ChuckElias]

I guess Dan can handle his own defense. I chimed in a little too late.

[rainmaker]

Dan, of course you're right and I'm wrong.

Everyone note, this doesnt happen often, so enjoy it while it's here.

Yes, a PC foul is also team control. Generally, it's easier to explain them as if they're separate, although last year's rule change that makes the penalty for TC the same as PC does make the whole thing less complicated.

Now will someone please e-mail me about Chuck's bad news, so I can share in the gloating and teasing? Thanks.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Now will someone please e-mail me about Chuck's bad news, so I can share in the gloating and teasing? Thanks.

Just so you're in the loop....

Chuckie had a little team
It's socks were a nice bright red
Now our poor Chuckie has just found out
That his little team is dead

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Just so you're in the loop....

Chuckie had a little team
It's socks were a nice bright red
Now our poor Chuckie has just found out
That his little team is dead

I see. cute little rhyme. Are you the one that pays Chuck to deliver the straight lines?!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Just so you're in the loop....

Chuckie had a little team
It's socks were a nice bright red
Now our poor Chuckie has just found out
That his little team is dead

A Haiku for Chuck

Big games this weekend
We'll beat those hated Yankees!
Not enough rain, sigh

And a limerick!

There once was a Sox fan named Chuck
Who's team was in for some luck
They put down their bet
"All 5 games of the set!"
And all they have left is "You suck"

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

A Haiku for Chuck

And a limerick!

You're in the wrong thread, wiseguy!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

You're in the wrong thread, wiseguy!

I got a promotion from wise@ss!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Dan, of course you're right and I'm wrong.

Everyone note, this doesnt happen often, so enjoy it while it's here.

Puh-leeze.



Who cares if you're wrong or how often. It's not like we expect perfection every single post you make and take glee when you're not.

BTW, you need an apostrophe in doesn't.

[BktBallRef]

Don't back down so quickly, Juulie.

For the record, I disagree that a player control foul is a team control foul.

When an airborne shooter commits a player control foul after releasing the ball, there is no team control.

This type of foul does not meet the definition of a team control foul. (4-19-7) Therefore, a PC foul is not a team control foul.

Player control fouls and team control fouls are two different animals and should not be grouped together, even if the penalties are the same.

BTW Dan, "Who cares if you're wrong or how often," is not a statement. It's a question and need a question mark at the end.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Don't back down so quickly, Juulie.

For the record, I disagree that a player control foul is a team control foul.

It doesn't matter, that's not what she said.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

When an airborne shooter commits a player control foul after releasing the ball, there is no team control.

This type of foul does not meet the definition of a team control foul. (4-19-7) Therefore, a PC foul is not a team control foul.

Player control fouls and team control fouls are two different animals and should not be grouped together, even if the penalties are the same.

Read the definition for TC foul. And you're late with the exception, Nevada mentioned it this afternnon.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

BTW Dan, "Who cares if you're wrong or how often," is not a statement. It's a question and need a question mark at the end.

How precious.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Read the definition for TC foul. And you're late with the exception, Nevada mentioned it this afternnon.

I've read the definition. "A team-control foul is a common foul committed by a member of the team that has team control." An airborne shooter who has released the ball is no longer in team control. Therefore, this is an instance where a PC foul does not meet the definition of a team control. If one exception exists, then that's all that's needed. A PC foul is not a team control foul.

Juulie wrote, "A team control foul is committed by a member of the team in control, but that player doesn't have player control." That's a true statement.

My apologies to you for not reading NVRef's post first. But he is correct and she's correct. If you disagree, then I'm certain willing to look at an NFHS interp or a case play. Got one?

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

BTW, you need an apostrophe in doesn't.

How precious.

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I've read the definition. Perhaps you should. An airborne shooter who has released the ball is no longer in team control. Therefore, this is an instance where a PC foul does not meet the definition of a team control. If one exception exists, then that's all that's needed.

And I apologize for not reading NVRef's post first. But he is correct and she's correct. And you're wrong.

Well let's see, here's what Juulie said:


Just to be very clear.

A player control foul is a foul committed by the person who has player control. A team control is committed by a member of the team in control, but that player doesn't have player control.


Here's what the fed said in 05-06, similar to NCAA wording:


A team control foul is a foul committed by a member of the team that has team control.

Not at all the same.

I'll grant you the exception, obviously it's correct under fed rules, but this exception does not exist under ncaa-m rules. But to say PC fouls & TC fouls are 2 seperate animals only means you don't understand the definition of TC fouls.

Anyway, let's see if we can agree to this:

Except for the airborne shooter exception in NFHS and NCAA-W rules all PC fouls are TC fouls.