Pre Game

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I see where you said that about the greenhorns. Sorry I missed that. Still, part of teamwork is "helping out" when a partner is confused or blocked out. I can think of a number of completely reasonable situations where that might happen without someone being out of line, depending on how you define primary and secondary areas. I mean, as near as I can tell, there isn't any spot on the floor that isn't in both a primary and a secondary, so there are always two people "authorized" to make any call. (I mean in three-whistle)

And if we ever work together, you can trust me to miss at least one that I'd be happy if you got.

Missing 1 is fine, I suppose. It's your problem usually.

But if you miss 1 I want to know about it...in case you miss another so I can be ready to help.

And certainly if you miss the game changing call I want to know about it so we (the crew) can save the game.

This argument about "I aint looking out of my area no way no how" and "trust your partner" and "who's watching Aunt Milly in the 4th row while you're looking in my area" is BS to me. I don't put on my black polyester pleated no belt no cuffs sansabelts and stick a whistle in my mouth only to ignore 2/3 of the game. If I did I would feel obligated to return 2/3 of my game fee. And trust is a 2 way street...if I'm going to trust you to make good calls then you have to trust me when I am forced to poach in your area.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

I mean, as near as I can tell, there isn't any spot on the floor that isn't in both a primary and a secondary, so there are always two

Agreed, but the way I interpret the original post (and also the situation that I added later in the post) is that the third official (who has no responsibilities in that area) makes the call.

If the third official makes the call, we have all three officials watching the same area and that is just not good 3-person officiating. In fact, it's a complete waste and we might as well go back to 2-person in that case.

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

Missing 1 is fine, I suppose. It's your problem usually.

But if you miss 1 I want to know about it...in case you miss another so I can be ready to help.

And certainly if you miss the game changing call I want to know about it so we (the crew) can save the game.

This argument about "I aint looking out of my area no way no how" and "trust your partner" and "who's watching Aunt Milly in the 4th row while you're looking in my area" is BS to me. I don't put on my black polyester pleated no belt no cuffs sansabelts and stick a whistle in my mouth only to ignore 2/3 of the game. If I did I would feel obligated to return 2/3 of my game fee. And trust is a 2 way street...if I'm going to trust you to make good calls then you have to trust me when I am forced to poach in your area.

Okay, soooo..............

what am I missing here? What are you trying to say?

I"m perfectly willing to trust you when you're poaching in my area, if you'll trust me not to blow up when you save the game by making my game changing call in ffront of our other partner. Or, huh?

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, soooo..............

what am I missing here? What are you trying to say?

I"m perfectly willing to trust you when you're poaching in my area, if you'll trust me not to blow up when you save the game by making my game changing call in ffront of our other partner. Or, huh?

I have no idea what you're saying, or asking.

Try again?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

Okay, soooo..............

what am I missing here? What are you trying to say?

I"m perfectly willing to trust you when you're poaching in my area, if you'll trust me not to blow up when you save the game by making my game changing call in ffront of our other partner. Or, huh?

If I am to understand you correctly Juulie, it sounds like you are saying that one call is going to save a game? I have never seen a situation where one call "saves" a game. Now there might be critical calls or important calls, but if a call needs to be made to save a game, I really think the official in that area should be put in trust to do so. If they cannot do so, they need not be there.

Peace

[rainmaker]

What I"m trying to say is, "I don't understand what Dan is trying to say." Wow, it's bad when I can't say, "huh?" and be understood! I guess I"d better stick to reading only for a while...

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

What I"m trying to say is, "I don't understand what Dan is trying to say." Wow, it's bad when I can't say, "huh?" and be understood! I guess I"d better stick to reading only for a while...

What I'm saying is:

1. Be aware of everything that goes on, in & out of your area.

2. If I trust you to call the game correctly then I trust you if you come into my area to pick something up. And I expect you to trust me when I come into your area.

3. If I don't trust you to call your game correctly I'm gonna help when you pass on the really big calls. How do I know I can't trust you? See #1.

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by Dan_ref

What I'm saying is:

1. Be aware of everything that goes on, in & out of your area.

2. If I trust you to call the game correctly then I trust you if you come into my area to pick something up. And I expect you to trust me when I come into your area.

3. If I don't trust you to call your game correctly I'm gonna help when you pass on the really big calls. How do I know I can't trust you? See #1.

Thanks.... for spelling that out more clearly, and for the content. I agree with you 100%. The whole "I'm not looking in your area" thing has never made sense to me. It sounds good as it comes out of the mouth, but in reality it's just plain stupid. It's important to be consistent with you partner, and the only way to do that is to see what partner is doing, what he's doing and what he's not doing, what he's calling and what he's not calling. Also, I think it's a lot easier to call in my area when I'm aware of what's going on in your area. As the ball moves, and players adjust, and set up new plays and so forth, I need to know which match-ups to keep a close eye on and where the various defenders are that might step into the dribbler's path. What you're saying isn't, "I'm responsible for the whole floor". You're saying "I"ll be AWARE of the whole floor, but I"m responsible for my primary and somewhat for my secondary". That makes the most sense.

[zebraman]

Originally Posted by rainmaker

You're saying "I"ll be AWARE of the whole floor, but I"m responsible for my primary and somewhat for my secondary". That makes the most sense.

Rainmaker,
That sounds an awful lot like what I posted 2 pages ago in this thread:

"An official needs to referee locally and be aware globally. Being aware means that you know where your partners and the ball are. It doesn't mean that you are reffing in their areas."

Z

[rainmaker]

Originally Posted by zebraman

Rainmaker,
That sounds an awful lot like what I posted 2 pages ago in this thread:

"An official needs to referee locally and be aware globally. Being aware means that you know where your partners and the ball are. It doesn't mean that you are reffing in their areas."

Z

Okay, so.....

[comical]

I don't carry a whistle, but keep the scorebook in Division III and post here occasionally. Is there anything you can share regarding what you tell table personnel or what you expect from the table personnel during pregame (or the game itself, for that matter)? For what it's worth, I usually work a doubleheader (women's game, then the men's game). I always appreciate input (even if you think it might be basic material that I already "know". Even a quick refresher course would be helpful regarding what you expect from table personnel).

Now that I'm thinking about basketball season, I made an incredibly stupid mistake last year in a D-III NCAA Tournament game that, while it ultimately didn't affect the game (it was corrected by other people at the table. I was the only one keeping a book. The other school didn't have someone keeping a book to save me, and the game, from my stupidity). Our coaches and other school personnel were cool about my error, telling me it didn't affect the outcome and not to worry about it. Regardless, it's been months, and I still ask myself how I could make such a mistake. It had to do with a running score mistake I made, which led to temporarily taking a point off the board. There's no real question to ask about that, I missed something and know I have to do better (as far as I know, I'll still be keeping the book here. No one's told me otherwise.) I'm just checking in to see if anyone has anything they would like to share regarding working with the scorekeeper.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by comical

I don't carry a whistle, but keep the scorebook in Division III and post here occasionally. Is there anything you can share regarding what you tell table personnel or what you expect from the table personnel during pregame (or the game itself, for that matter)? For what it's worth, I usually work a doubleheader (women's game, then the men's game). I always appreciate input (even if you think it might be basic material that I already "know". Even a quick refresher course would be helpful regarding what you expect from table personnel).

The only thing really anyone can tell you are to listen to whatever the officials at the game want you to do. Unfortunately there really is no one size fits all expectation. Hell all I want is to be informed of any problems. Most of the time the crew will figure that out on our own when something goes crazy. Just remember you are apart of the officiating crew. Other than that, the crew that will work on a particular night might have different expectations based on their experience or their own expectations.

Peace

[zeke]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

PREGAME CONFERENCE

Court Coverage:
Trail’s Primary Responsibilities:
- Sideline And Division Line
- Last Second Shot
- Drives Starting In Primary
- Bring Subs In
- Weak Side Rebound Coverage
Lead’s Primary Responsibilities:
- Endline And Sideline
- Post Play
- Illegal Screens At Elbows
Stay In Your Primary, It Must Be Obvious To Come Out Of Your Primary

Coaches And Captains:
- Players properly equipped.
- Players wear uniforms properly.
- Practice good sportsmanship.

Double Whistles:
- Let’s both hold our preliminary signal and not give a block or player control signal.
- Make eye contact with each other.
- Give the call to whoever has the primary coverage, unless you definitely have something different that happened first.
- Opposite signals: Assess both fouls. Count the basket if the ball was released before the contact. Resume with the Point of Interruption.

Pass And Crash:
- Let’s have the Lead official follow the pass, stay with the ball.
- The Trail will be responsible for the crash.

Out-Of-Bounds Help:
- If I have no idea and I look to you for help, just give a directional signal. No need to come to me. Just point.
- If I signal but I get it wrong, then blow the whistle and come to me. Tell me what you saw and let me decide if I’m going to change it.

Press Coverage:
- Help each other. New Lead will wait at midcourt.

Technical Fouls:
- If I T a coach, get me away from the coach. The situation is heated and I don’t want to whack the coach back-to-back. Let’s move away from the benches. Non calling official should inform the coach that the coaching box privilege has been lost.
- Let’s get together and make sure we administer the penalty or penalties correctly and in the correct order and at the correct basket.
- If one official issues a warning to somebody (player or coach), make sure the other official knows. If I’ve already warned the coach, the coach shouldn’t get a free shot at you.

Two-Point/Three-Point Shot:
- If one official incorrectly signals the number of points, the other official will simply blow the whistle immediately, discuss the play with our partner, come to a decision, signal the correct number of points to the table, and resume the game. We will only correct if we are 100% sure.

Goaltending And Basket Interference:
- 99% of the time, the Trail will be responsible for the call.
- Lead can help out on a quick shot in transition, when Trail hasn’t made it into the frontcourt yet.
- Let’s remember that it’s never basket interference or goaltending to slap the backboard. Coaches and fans always want it, but we can’t award the points.

Last Shot:
- 99% of the time, the Trail will be responsible for the call.
- Let’s both have an opinion, in case Trail’s not sure.
- How will we handle a full-court pass when the Trail is stuck in the backcourt?

Foul Mechanics:
- Preliminary signal given at spot of foul for all common fouls.
- Calling official must designate throwin spot or number of shots.
- Noncalling official, get the shooter. If the ball enters the basket, inform partner that ball went in.

Throw Ins:
- Ten players, eye contact, check table, check clock.

Timeout Mechanics:
- When the ball is dead, we must be alive.
- Team calling timeout must have player dribbling or holding the ball.
- Both officials must know the game situation when play resumes following a timeout (team, direction, spot or run baseline, shooter, number of shots).
- One official at spot of throwin or free throw line with ball facing direction in which it will be put into play. Other official at division line, quarter for 30 second and three quarters for 60 second.

Post Play:
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a forearm on a player with the ball.
- Let’s not allow a defender to use a leg or knee to move a player off the block.
- Let’s make sure the offensive player isn’t holding off the defender, or holding him with his off-hand.
- As Lead, let’s find the post matchup as soon as possible so that we get the first foul.
- Remember the RIDD’s. Don’t let players: Redirect, Impede, Displace, or Dislodge.

Ball-Handler / Hand-Checking:
- Two hands on the ball-handler is a foul. Automatic.
- One hand that stays on the dribbler is a foul.
- Let’s not let a defender ride the dribbler as the ball is coming from backcourt to frontcourt.
- Remember SBQ. If the dribbler’s Speed, Balance, or Quickness are affected, we should have a hand-checking foul.

Screens:
- We must work hard off the ball.
- In the first half especially, let’s clean up the screening action. The screening action will be right in front of the defensive coach in the first half, so if the coach sees an illegal screen, we should too.
- In the second half, with the defensive coach 60 feet away, let’s be aware of the screening, but we don’t need to focus quite as hard on it. If there’s an obvious call to be made, let’s absolutely make it; but we won’t make it our “point of emphasis” in the second half.

Consistency:
- Let’s see if we can call the same game. Be consistent with each other.
- Let’s try to remember what we’ve called earlier in the game, and what we haven’t called. Be consistent with what has already happened in the game.
- If I have a very close block/charge play and I call a blocking foul, then the next time you have a similar block/charge play, you should have a blocking foul.

Game Situation Awareness:
- One of us should quickly check the clock after every whistle to make sure the clock stops properly.
- One of us should check the clock every time it should start to make sure it does so.
- Let’s try to be aware of the foul count during the game. We don’t want to be surprised when it’s time to shoot the bonus. If we know that the next foul will result in bonus free throws, we’ll be more likely to remember our shooter.

Last Two Minutes:
- We’re not calling anything in the last two minutes if we haven’t already called it earlier in the game, unless it’s so blatant that it can’t be ignored. We don’t want our first illegal screen to be called with 30 seconds left in the game; but if the illegal screen puts a player into the first row of the bleachers, then we have to call it.
- Let’s not put the whistles away in the last two minutes: That wouldn’t be consistent with the way we’ve been calling the game. If the game dictates it, let the players win or lose the game at the line. We don’t want to be the ones who decide the game by ignoring obvious fouls just to get the game over.
- End of game strategic fouls: If the winning team is just holding the ball and is willing to take the free throws, then let’s call the foul immediately, so the ballhandler doesn’t get hit harder to draw a whistle. Let’s make sure there is a play on the ball by the defense. If there’s no play on the ball, if the defense grabs the jersey from behind, or if the ballhandler receives a bear hug,we should consider an intentional foul. These are not basketball plays and should be penalized as intentional.

2006-07 Rule Changes:
- Changed the guidelines for headbands and sweatbands.
- Added that a school logo/mascot is also permitted on the pants, compression shorts, sweatbands and headbands.
- The exact time observed by the official may be placed on the clock when a timer’s mistake has occurred.
- A fourth delay situation was added for water on the court following any time-out.
- Changed the procedure for delay warnings to only one warning for any of four delay situations (previously three).
- Established a new signal for a team-control foul. The arm is extended and the fist is punched.
- Clarified that a player who has any amount of blood on his/her uniform shall be directed to leave the game until the situation is corrected.
- Clarified that a closely guarded count is terminated when an offensive player in control of the ball gets his/her head and shoulders past a defensive player.
- Clarified that an unsporting foul can be a noncontact technical foul which involves behavior not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.
- Clarified that a player is one of five team members who are legally in the game at any given time except intermission and that during an intermission, all team members are bench personnel.
5-11-2 Clarified that during a 30-second time-out, no on-court entertainment should occur.

2006-07 Points Of Emphasis:
- Concussions
- Uniforms
- Time-outs
- Intentional Fouls
- Rule Enforcement/Proper Signal Use

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!