Race card played

[Jimgolf]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

How 'bout you use little commone sense? No one said that it "makes him a racist." But it's definitely a racist comment from the coach. He used the word "bigot" to say that the official was cheating his team because they were of a different skin color. That's damn sure a racist remark.

You're saying the coach made a racial remark. That is the same as the coach saying the official is a bigot. You are calling the coach a bigot, just using different words.

[REFVA]

Unless I'm misinterpreting you, I completely disagree with your comments above. Yes, we might be prepared to hear and receive abuse. That doesn't mean that we should EVER tolerate racial remarks of any kind, whether they're coming from a player, coach, fan, etc. Do something about it. Imo, if you tolerate racial remarks, that's the same as condoning them; it's wrong.

Yes, maybe I should make myself clear. I'm not going become sensitive to those remarks. If that is directed to me or anyone on the court and on the benches and even if it's directed to a person in stands or in the gym by a player or coach or anyone who is considered a participant to the outcome of the game. Yes I will not tolerate it. I believe that the original poster did the correct thing by T'ing him up. I guess I was implying more so to people in the stands and even by players and coaches after a the outcome of the game has already been determined.

Sorry for any confusion, I don't and will not tolerate it, Although I won't be surprised if it does occur.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

You're saying the coach made a racial remark. That is the same as the coach saying the official is a bigot. You are calling the coach a bigot, just using different words.

I'm not saying anything to the asst. coach. I wasn't even there, so how can I be saying the coach is anything. I'm simply interpreting the meaning of his statement. You seem to be hung up on labeling people. I'm not labeling anyone here. I'm not a bigot, just because I view his comments as racial. The asst. coach may or may not be a bigot. It's not my responsibility to make that determinstaion. I'm discussing and judging his actions. I can certainly make a judgment that he made a racist statement. You said it yourself. The coach accused the official of cheating his team. Why? Because they were a different color.

You can side step it all day long but at the end of the day, if it walk like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, it's a duck.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by REFVA

I guess I was implying more so to people in the stands and even by players and coaches after a the outcome of the game has already been determined.

You would allow players and coaches to address you, your partners or the opponents in such a manner, just because outcome has been determined?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by REFVA

Sorry for any confusion, I don't and will not tolerate it, Although I won't be surprised if it does occur.

Thank you for the clarification above. I pretty much feel the same way.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

You're saying the coach made a racial remark. That is the same as the coach saying the official is a bigot. You are calling the coach a bigot, just using different words.

Um, Jim, that's exactly what the coach said- that Larry was a bigot. I'm kinda missing whatever point that you're trying to make with that statement. And, yeah, if a person is making bigoted statements, then there's usually a pretty good chance that that person actually is a bigot. That's kinda irrelevant anyway though because the coach got thrown for making a racial comment, not for what he might be. Iow, he was penalized solely for his actions, and rightfully so imo.

[REFVA]

You would allow players and coaches to address you, your partners or the opponents in such a manner, just because outcome has been determined?BSKBLLREF

After the outcome has been determined and I'm out of the confinds of the gym, my status as an official is done. It's no diiferent if you came up to me in a public area and did the same thing. You are entitled to your opinion..
If you read my post, I said that during the game I will not tolerate it..

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by REFVA

After the outcome has been determined and I'm out of the confinds of the gym, my status as an official is done. It's no diiferent if you came up to me in a public area and did the same thing. You are entitled to your opinion..
If you read my post, I said that during the game I will not tolerate it..

So after the game, a coach or player comes into your locker room or sees you in the parking lot and makes a racial, profane or vulgar slur at you, you'll just accept that as him being entitled to his opinion?

Sorry but I don't think so. People have to be held accountable, when they're in such a position. We'll just agree to disagree on that one, partner.

[REFVA]

So after the game, a coach or player comes into your locker room or sees you in the parking lot and makes a racial, profane or vulgar slur at you, you'll just accept that as him being entitled to his opinion?
BKtBALLref

I reverse the question, what do you do if I came up to you as a stranger in public area and say the same racial remark?

There are step at scalastic level to report that coach and player and beyond that what other steps would you take?

[JugglingReferee]

From dictionary.com:

Bigot:

n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

I doubt the coaches/refs exchanged political or religious views. He could be referring to his group of players. I doubt it though.

Seems to me that race is the factor.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by REFVA

I reverse the question, what do you do if I came up to you as a stranger in public area and say the same racial remark?

You mean aside from punching you in the face?

I'm not addressing your comments as Joe Q. Public. I'm addressing your comments based on the fact that you are an official until you leave the grounds of a school. Your capacity doesn't end when the horn sounds. You are still a representative of your local association and your state association.

There are step at scalastic level to report that coach and player and beyond that what other steps would you take?

I don't know what scalastic is. But I do know that whether the game is over or not, I am still an official until I leave the grounds of that school. Coaches and players are accountable to the school, the local school board and the state asscoiation. The school is accountable for the conduct of fans on their premises. Even if it were a fan that approached me in the parking lot and directed racial, profane or vulgar language at me, damn skippy I would report the incident. It's more appropriate for me to approach someone in such a manner than it is for them to approach me.

I don't stop being an official just because the game is over.

[REFVA]

I don't know what scalastic is

Sorry my bad, Scholastic!

Look, I don't disagree with anything you said. I'm also not a fool. When I took the responsibility of becoming an basketball official I took the oath to which I will do my best as an official. If the fan, player, coach and anyone else that has the balls to approach me after and anywhere on and off the grounds of the school and try to cause me harm this guy/person doesn't have it all together. You could punch me in the face or what ever you please, as you mentioned. If he calls me a bigot, then I'm walking away once I'm out of the gym.

In today's enviorement, you never know who and what is capable of doing anytime or anywhere. I could only tell you about a personal expereince that happened to me, as I umpired a adult softball game. the call didn't go toward certain individual, He was nuts enough to come after me with a bat. He was arrested for doing what he did. I was lucky at that moment to get away unharmed, I look at if as my luck may eventually run out.

That doesn't mean that I will not do my best to disfuse any situation.
Everyone will handle every sitaution differently.

[BktBallRef]

And I had the same idiot throw a softball at me after I tossed him.

So I don't disagree with you with regard to maintaining your composure and professionalism in the face of such acts. The point that I hope you understand is that you don't cease being an official just becasue the game is over or you leave the gym. You came to the school as an official. Therefore, you have that responsibility until such time as you leave. You can bet that if you called some fan a dumbass in the parking lot, you'd get a call the next morning. Why? Because you're still at the school in your capacity as an official.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by REFVA

As I've been reading this thread, all of you are passionate about this topic make lot's of sense. let's keep in mind we all have our own interprtation and opinions. Let's also keep in mind that when this occurred, Was The assistance coach a possible parent or an adult that is not normally in the capacity of a coach. So he may have not had the proper training and does not know how to handle the game situation. might be (a coach wanna be) Doesn't make it right. As a ref we should be prepared to hear and recieve all kinds of abuse thrown at us. Including racial remarks.

I completely agree with this statement.

Originally Posted by REFVA

This comment really bothers me most did the official take any actions against his association. unless there is lot's more to the story. I ref in a very diverse area and the majority of the players are minorities, I being caucasan get that word thrown my way all the times. Yet my thoughts "who am I being prejudice against". It's just ignorance on the part of the asst coach and anyone who may even think of using the term. Obviously it's IMO.

What action were these guys going to take? If someone decides you are not qualified to work a league, they can pretty much come up with any reason they want to. Now I guess you could file a suit and go through some legal battles over this issue, but would that be worth it? This is also not about an "association." This league or any league can scratch people how ever they want to. There is no association that can tell a league who they want to work or not work (at least around here). Also it is not like these officials could not find other places to work. All three (who were Black) that year worked a State Final and one of the officials worked this year for his 4th state title overall in Basketball. So these guys were not hurting for games or opportunities in basketball.

A side note to this story, the one guy that was so-called banned from this league was not hired in the Big Ten as a football official. I do not think it was all that tragic for him.

Peace

[REFVA]

The point that I hope you understand is that you don't cease being an official just becasue the game is over or you leave the gym. BKTballRef

I understand! I'm with you..