Race card played

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Absolutely nothing. Does that mean he can't discuss it.

The fact is that it was a racist remark, and the fact is he chose to discuss it. If it had been a white coach that made a racist remark to a black official, you'd make a 10 page thread out of it. But I guess since the shoe's on the other foot this time, you don't consider it discussion worthy.

It is not a racist remark. The coach was accusing him of something. Not sure how it is racist to accuse someone of a certain behavior or action.

I also did not say he could not discuss it, but this is not the "race card." Race is never a card; it is a reality of life. When I stop hearing about burning crosses in communities and race issues go completely away, then we can call it a card. Until that time racial issues are a fact.

Peace

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is not a racist remark. The coach was accusing him of something. Not sure how it is racist to accuse someone of a certain behavior or action.

If it is perceived by anyone is racist, then it is racist. At least that is the reasoning you've used in the past on several occasions involving race and also involving our discussion of "lady". Or is it that only what you perceive as racist really is so.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I also did not say he could not discuss it, but this is not the "race card." Race is never a card; it is a reality of life. When I stop hearing about burning crosses in communities and race issues go completely away, then we can call it a card. Until that time racial issues are a fact.
Peace

The only cross burnings I've ever seen in my life have been on fictional TV and I can't say that I've even seen that more than a handful of times. I've never even heard of one in any community I've lived in (and I live in the south for over 20 years). Sure they happened in the past and probably still do happen on occassion....and should actually never happen. But, unless the official we're talking about participated in one, I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion.

[Corndog89]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is not a racist remark. The coach was accusing him of something. Not sure how it is racist to accuse someone of a certain behavior or action.

I also did not say he could not discuss it, but this is not the "race card." Race is never a card; it is a reality of life. When I stop hearing about burning crosses in communities and race issues go completely away, then we can call it a card. Until that time racial issues are a fact.

Peace

When someone disingenuously uses one of society's hot-button topics or values, such as race or gender or religion or sexual preference or anything else for that matter, to further his or her own agenda or twist a situation, then that is playing an advantage, as in a game of cards. "Playing the race card" is taking a real issue and falsely injecting the negative annotations of that issue onto someone. That makes it different from the "real" issue, of which racism and all the nasty history associated with it is one. Playing the race card is different from the reality of racism, and race is indeed all-too-often used as a card for advantage.

A few years ago I was calling a rec game in Panama City FL. The coaches and all the players on both teams were black, my partner was black, the scorekeeper was black, and the 20-30 or so people watching the game were black. The only other white guy in the gym besides me was the clock operator who was about 70 years old and weighed all of 130 pounds. At some point during the game I made an out-of-bounds call. One of the players on the bench didn't like the call and loudly called me a racist. I'm not sure who I was supposed to be racist against, but he was obviously trying to intimidate me. It didn't work. I wasn't (and am not) racist, but he tried to influence me and the people present just by making the accusation. That is playing the race card.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If it is perceived by anyone is racist, then it is racist. At least that is the reasoning you've used in the past on several occasions involving race and also involving our discussion of "lady". Or is it that only what you perceive as racist really is so.

Please do not twist the conversation around to try to fit some narrow perception you have of my opinions. It is one thing to talk about a single word and the potential history behind that word. Accusing someone of being a bigot is not a racist comment. It might be an inflammatory statement, but not a racist one. If we use your logic, no one can make an accusation of racism ever without holding racist views. Kind of funny when accusing someone of being racist does not show superiority for one race to another.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The only cross burnings I've ever seen in my life have been on fictional TV and I can't say that I've even seen that more than a handful of times. I've never even heard of one in any community I've lived in (and I live in the south for over 20 years). Sure they happened in the past and probably still do happen on occassion....and should actually never happen. But, unless the official we're talking about participated in one, I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion.

Well I have experienced cross-burnings in communities I have lived. There have also been cross-burnings in surrounding communities where I have lived as well. And these incidents did not happen 20 years ago, they happen less than 5 years ago. That does not include racist graffiti or spray painting on property that might belong to someone who is of color or of Jewish decent. I was called a derogatory name in a town which had a Klan rally earlier that year. Just because you have not experienced such things, does not mean it has still does not happen today.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Corndog89

That is playing the race card.

People have the right to make judgments about race or anything else for that matter that they can come up with. Some of those accusations will be to your face; many will be behind your back. Coaches and players accuse officials all the time of being bias because of where they think we live or who we have some kind of relationship with. If it bothers you so much that "race" was the reason bias was claimed, then maybe officiating is not for you. That is a very common accusation where I live whether you are Black or whether you are white. It is also very common to work a very racially diverse game on a regular basis where I live as well. I have been accused of selling out because I did not appease a Black coach and his team the way he felt I should. You simply get over it and move on. I think the most people do not want to seriously deal with issue of race in this society, so called a racist becomes a tragedy to some. I know 3 Black officials that took a hell of a lot more crap for not "helping" an all-Black team/school win in a big playoff game in 2005. At least this incident happen on the court and it did not spill into phone calls and emails and multiple conversations when the game is over about your "loyalty" and "integrity" based completely on your race. Then one of the officials was essentially fired in a league for not being "loyal" to this one team only because he shared a race with the players and their coaches in this playoff game.

The point of all of this, there are worst things that could have happened. I seriously doubt this official is going to lose anything because of this accusation.

Peace

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is not a racist remark. The coach was accusing him of something. Not sure how it is racist to accuse someone of a certain behavior or action.

Even you aren't that damn dumb. He is accusing the man of making calls against his team because of the color of their skin. That's not racist?

I also did not say he could not discuss it, but this is not the "race card." Race is never a card; it is a reality of life. When I stop hearing about burning crosses in communities and race issues go completely away, then we can call it a card. Until that time racial issues are a fact.

This isn't about burning crosses. It's about a asst. coach who thinks just because a white official makes a call against his player, the official has to be a bigot. You're the one who's trying to twist this into something it's not. Camron and Corndog hit the nail on the head. The only things that are racist are what Rutledge says is racist.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by LarryS

The black team assistant starts onto the floor complaining. I hold up my hand and ask him to get off the floor. He yells “Ill do what I want and there is nothing you can do!” I show him there is at least one thing I can do and stick him.

About this time, one of my partners gets there and is trying to get between the two of us. I take a step back, then to the side but the assistant is persistent. He is still vocal, and I’m thinking my partner is going to run him any minute. Finally, he sticks his finger at me and yells “You are a bigot!”

Flagrant technical foul as soon as that remark was made. Write it up after the game and turn it into the league/TASO. It's an obvious racial comment, and racial comments like that have no place in any sport- ever.

Your partner really showed a lack of testicular fortitude in this situation imo, Larry. If he doesn't wanna take care of bidness out there, then he should find something else to do in his free time.

[tomegun]

I think it is funny to say someone calling someone bigot in this situation isn't racist. He called the guy a bigot because he felt like he was making calls against his team based on race. That isn't racist? Now we have brought ignorance into the conversation.
Is there some organization that determines when a word like "bigot" can be used and not be racial? If there is, I don't know of such and organization. This is probably one man's opinion which isn't the deciding factor.
The term "race card" makes me roll my eyes. Racism happens everyday and many people like to dismiss it by using the term "race card." Furthermore, if someone doesn't think things like burning crosses are a thing of the past, they must be ignoring what happens in our society.

Back on point, correct JR - Flagrant T immediately. I still think the official who is the focus of this attack should have the first shot at this T. This would cause my ears to perk up immediately and a T would probably be a quick reaction. I'm black and I've had black coaches make similar remarks. I put the wonder twins (my two index fingers) in the form of a T!!!!!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by tomegun

Is there some organization that determines when a word like "bigot" can be used and not be racial? If there is, I don't know of such an organization. This is probably one man's opinion which isn't the deciding factor.

I've been in similar situations in the (fairly long ago) past when religion and ethnicity were put into play also. My partner and I were accused once by a coach of favoring Catholic players over his Protestant school. That coach actually was a JV coach that was providing color commentary on a cable tv broadcast of his school's varsity team, and he made the remarks on-air. He ended up being suspended for those remarks, and he also got warned that if he ever repeated anything like them, he'd be fired. He was also ordered to make a written aoplogy to both my partner and myself, which he did. I also had a game once between a Hebrew league all-star team and a Yugoslavian team where players on both teams accused me of favoring the other side for religious/ethnic reasons. Those players went buh-bye too.

One of the reasons that people are hired to officiate games in any sport is to try and keep out any hint of bias- no matter what type of bias it might be. Anything of a racial/ethnic/religious nature just shouldn't be tolerated by officials anytime imo.

[Damian]

During a college camp, one team was really getting outplayed. Of course, that is when the assistant coaches get in trouble. This one did. As I am trail during a free throw, he says loud enoug for everyone to hear that they keep getting calls against them because they are a minority.

Immediate whack.

This team ended up getting a total of 4 T's. The other three by one of my partners and left the court before the game ended.

Needless to say, the evaluator was not pleased.

[REFVA]

As I've been reading this thread, all of you are passionate about this topic make lot's of sense. let's keep in mind we all have our own interprtation and opinions. Let's also keep in mind that when this occurred, Was The assistance coach a possible parent or an adult that is not normally in the capacity of a coach. So he may have not had the proper training and does not know how to handle the game situation. might be (a coach wanna be) Doesn't make it right. As a ref we should be prepared to hear and recieve all kinds of abuse thrown at us. Including racial remarks.

Then one of the officials was essentially fired in a league for not being "loyal" to this one team only because he shared a race with the players and their coaches in this playoff game. JRutledge

This comment really bothers me most did the official take any actions against his association. unless there is lot's more to the story. I ref in a very diverse area and the majority of the players are minorities, I being caucasan get that word thrown my way all the times. Yet my thoughts "who am I being prejudice against". It's just ignorance on the part of the asst coach and anyone who may even think of using the term. Obviously it's IMO.

[Jimgolf]

Calling someone a bigot is not racism. If you are calling the coach a racist, does that make you a racist? Use some common sense here.

This is the same as calling you a cheat, IMO. Assess a flagrant technical, with whatever followup is possible. If this is AAU, bring it to the attention of the event organizer and the local chapter. If this is a regular season game, file the paperwork.

This particular coach needs to be educated as to what is acceptable behavior for an assistant coach, i.e. sit and be quiet. This is one of the coaching behaviors that can lead to on-court violence over the course of a season, and should be dealt with as severely as possible.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by REFVA

As I've been reading this thread, all of you are passionate about this topic make lot's of sense. let's keep in mind we all have our own interprtation and opinions. Let's also keep in mind that when this occurred, Was The assistance coach a possible parent or an adult that is not normally in the capacity of a coach. So he may have not had the proper training and does not know how to handle the game situation. might be (a coach wanna be) Doesn't make it right. As a ref we should be prepared to hear and recieve all kinds of abuse thrown at us. Including racial remarks.

Sorry but that's complete and total bull$hit. It makes no difference whether he makes his living as a coach or not. He's an asst. coach tonight. Further, I expect to hear stupid things from fans, coaches and players. But no official should have to tolerate profane, vulgar, or racist comments directed toward them.

Originally Posted by Jimgolf

Calling someone a bigot is not racism. If you are calling the coach a racist, does that make you a racist? Use some common sense here.

How 'bout you use little commone sense? No one said that it "makes him a racist." But it's definitely a racist comment from the coach. He used the word "bigot" to say that the official was cheating his team because they were of a different skin color. That's damn sure a racist remark.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by REFVA

As a ref we should be prepared to hear and recieve all kinds of abuse thrown at us. Including racial remarks.

Unless I'm misinterpreting you, I completely disagree with your comments above. Yes, we might be prepared to hear and receive abuse. That doesn't mean that we should EVER tolerate racial remarks of any kind, whether they're coming from a player, coach, fan, etc. Do something about it. Imo, if you tolerate racial remarks, that's the same as condoning them; it's wrong.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

How 'bout you use little commone sense? No one said that it "makes him a racist." But it's definitely a racist comment from the coach. He used the word "bigot" to say that the official was cheating his team because they were of a different skin color. That's damn sure a racist remark.

Just for the record, I can't thing of any other way that calling someone a "bigot" under the particular circumstances described in the original post could not be racial in nature.

Jimgolf, What do you think that the assistant coach was actually trying to say- that the ref was bigoted against all assistant coaches?