Spectator interference at a critical point

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Official99

Bravo Chuck... Bravo


(does that make you feel better?)

Immeasurably!!

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

Immeasurably!!

Good.

Now you can go climb up your tree & really have a good time.

[BillyMac]

This play really happened a few months ago. I have discussed it with several officials and cannot seem to get a clear intepretation. I posted it on this Forum a few months ago, but it didn't seem to generate a lot of interest, so I'll try again:

NFHS Rules. High school varsity game. Small, crowded gymnasium. Not much room outside the sidelines.

Point guard A1 passes to wing A2, who, unfortunately was making a V-cut toward the basket. I am the trail official and I know for sure that the ball will definitely go out of bounds on the sideline on the opposite side of the floor from me. My partner is the lead official and it's his sideline to cover. At that second, a fan, holding a hot dog from the concession stand, while trying to get back to his seat, while totally inbounds, both feet, on the playing surface, is struck by the ball which keeps it from going out of bounds. Player A2 comes back from his V-cut to pick up the loose ball and play continues. My partner and I were both dumb-founded, and allowed the play to continue with no whistle. No coaches complained. No parents complained.

Is there a call here? Is the fan treated like an offical on the court, as part of the floor? If a coach or substitute had been struck by a ball under the same circumstances, we could have called a technical foul for the coach being out of the coaching box or for a sixth player being on the floor.

Please cite an NFHS rule or case book reference. I am also willing to accept NCAA, FIBA, NBA, or WNBA citations. Help.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This play really happened a few months ago. I have discussed it with several officials and cannot seem to get a clear intepretation. I posted it on this Forum a few months ago, but it didn't seem to generate a lot of interest, so I'll try again:

NFHS Rules. High school varsity game. Small, crowded gymnasium. Not much room outside the sidelines.

Point guard A1 passes to wing A2, who, unfortunately was making a V-cut toward the basket. I am the trail official and I know for sure that the ball will definitely go out of bounds on the sideline on the opposite side of the floor from me. My partner is the lead official and it's his sideline to cover. At that second, a fan, holding a hot dog from the concession stand, while trying to get back to his seat, while totally inbounds, both feet, on the playing surface, is struck by the ball which keeps it from going out of bounds. Player A2 comes back from his V-cut to pick up the loose ball and play continues. My partner and I were both dumb-founded, and allowed the play to continue with no whistle. No coaches complained. No parents complained.

Is there a call here? Is the fan treated like an offical on the court, as part of the floor? If a coach or substitute had been struck by a ball under the same circumstances, we could have called a technical foul for the coach being out of the coaching box or for a sixth player being on the floor.

Please cite an NFHS rule or case book reference. I am also willing to accept NCAA, FIBA, NBA, or WNBA citations. Help.

Billy, I don't think that there's anything definitively covering it under NFHS or NCAA rules. This is probably one of the very few times that NFHS 2-3 can be used. From a logical standpoint, I'd say that if you were sure that the pass was gonna go OOB untouched, then blow the whistle and give team B the ball OOB at that spot for fan interference. That's seems like the fair call to me and I don't think that you'd get too many arguments over that.

Note that I certainly can't fault you for letting the play continue. That play certainly rates a "whatinthehell?".

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Billy, I don't think that there's anything definitively covering it under NFHS or NCAA rules. This is probably one of the very few times that NFHS 2-3 can be used. From a logical standpoint, I'd say that if you were sure that the pass was gonna go OOB untouched, then blow the whistle and give team B the ball OOB at that spot for fan interference. That's seems like the fair call to me and I don't think that you'd get too many arguments over that.

Note that I certainly can't fault you for letting the play continue. That play certainly rates a "whatinthehell?".

I agree with these comments as well. Call the fan interference right away. Give the ball to the defense and move along.

[Official99]

While I disagree with just giving the ball to the defence in this case, I also don't think you can just award an indirect T to the coach. There are many situations that can occur. What if this T is the third T for the coach? Now because of an unsupporting fan, he has to leave?

What ever happens, needs to happen quick. I think this biggest thing between your call going smoothly and having problems is you need to sell it. Make the call. Tell the coaches. Sell it like you've made that call a million times before and move on. You will have to do it quickly, because the last thing a coach wants to see in this situation, is you not knowing what to do!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Official99

1) While I disagree with just giving the ball to the defence in this case, I also don't think you can just award an indirect T to the coach. There are many situations that can occur. What if this T is the third T for the coach? Now because of an unsupporting fan, he has to leave?

2) What ever happens, needs to happen quick. I think this biggest thing between your call going smoothly and having problems is you need to sell it. Make the call. Tell the coaches. Sell it like you've made that call a million times before and move on. You will have to do it quickly, because the last thing a coach wants to see in this situation, is you not knowing what to do!

1) Where did you come up with that? You're completely wrong under both NCAA and NFHS rules. In both rulesets, if a technical foul is called on a team's fans, that "T" is charged to the team. The head coach doesn't get charged with any kind of technical foul. Re-read what Dan_Ref and Chuck wrote.

2)So......you disagree with giving the balll to the defense. What would you do instead? What call are you going to sell?

[SmokeEater]

Originally Posted by Official99

While I disagree with just giving the ball to the defence in this case, I also don't think you can just award an indirect T to the coach. There are many situations that can occur. What if this T is the third T for the coach? Now because of an unsupporting fan, he has to leave?

What ever happens, needs to happen quick. I think this biggest thing between your call going smoothly and having problems is you need to sell it. Make the call. Tell the coaches. Sell it like you've made that call a million times before and move on. You will have to do it quickly, because the last thing a coach wants to see in this situation, is you not knowing what to do!

Why would you have a problem giving the ball to the defense? The Offense made the pass it was evidently going out of bounds according to the OP (sorry BillyMac's OP). Blow the whistle make your signal, going this way, move along. Of course if D had deflected the pass then thats another story right!

[ChuckElias]

I don't know how my name got dragged into M&M's tree. The real question is what would happen if M&M was having a good time up in his tree and a 12-year old kid threw a basketball at him to try to get him down.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by ChuckElias

I don't know how my name got dragged into M&M's tree.

He was using your hand.

[M&M Guy]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

He was using your hand.

Sigh...

Chuck, you can go ahead and get in the tree. I guess I'm done with it for now.

Can I give you a hand?