New Rules POLL

[Texas Aggie]

Some not listed that I want changed:

1. Limit all head coach T's (indirect or direct) to 2 before ejection. There's no reason to allow 3 and indirect means they don't have control of their bench, team, players, etc.

2. Make all non-shooting fouls under 1 minute in the 4th quarter 2 shots plus point of interruption. I strongly disagree with Fed's comments that fouling to stop the clock is an acceptable part of the game. Why does the rules committee feel that committing a rules infraction should be considered part of the game? Now, this will usually mean 2 shots and the ball, however, point of interruption may need to be defined more precisely and if the foul is during a shot, it goes AP -- so it's not strictly the same as intentional foul.

3. Allow the coach to call a time out during a dead ball only and require a VISUAL signal for all time out calls, player or coach (maybe except the player in control of the ball).

4. Go back to allowing players in the lane on the release of the free throw. This is hard to call as is and isn't enforced well anyway.

5. Require the head coach to sign the scorebook 10 minutes prior to the game (or less by state association adoption for subvarsity competition). The officials shouldn't have to chase down the head coach and give them the option of signing or approving the book when he or she doesn't want to, then get yelled when they didn't do it and the team has incorrect info.

[jkjenning]

Originally posted by Texas Aggie:
Why does the rules committee feel that committing a rules infraction should be considered part of the game?

"Hack-a-Shaq"? "Make 'em earn 'em at the FT line?" - fouling as strategy is common.

I think that fouling towards the end of the game places a good emphasis on FTs - why allow a team to be a horrible FT shooting team and still get the ball back just because we're towards the end of the game????

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

2. Make all non-shooting fouls under 1 minute in the 4th quarter 2 shots plus point of interruption.

4. Go back to allowing players in the lane on the release of the free throw. This is hard to call as is and isn't enforced well anyway.

5. Require the head coach to sign the scorebook 10 minutes prior to the game (or less by state association adoption for subvarsity competition). The officials shouldn't have to chase down the head coach and give them the option of signing or approving the book when he or she doesn't want to, then get yelled when they didn't do it and the team has incorrect info.

2) Well, that that would be kind of a tough penalty for player and team control fouls, wouldn't it?

4) It might not be enforced well in your locale in Texas, but I can't agree that it's hard to call and isn't enforced well in other places.

5) Is that a local Texas rule to give a coach an option of signing the scorebook before the game? It sureasheck ain't in the rules. We don't chase any coaches before the game to sign the book, and never have.

[Texas Aggie]

2. I think you should know I was gearing for the fouling to stop the clock crowd. That would mean this wouldn't apply, obviously, to player control fouls. Perhaps a little thought would have to be given to team control fouls, but as of now, I don't see exempting them as a problem either.

4. Then explain how the lead can see both the rim and the feet of players on the lane opposite him. I have as good a perifial vision as anyone and get back farther than everyone, yet I still have trouble seeing both the rim and the players' feet. Further, it isn't necessary. There's no reason not to allow them in the lane. If there's a foul, call the foul. I played under this rule in HS and before (I think) and then the rule changed. Why they changed it back I don't know.

5. It isn't a rule per se, but more of a custom that I don't like. I was out of officiating for a while and came back in, and now it seems to be of widespread use in varsity and JV games. I'd prefer just to check the book at 10 and leave it at that. Some say if you give the coach the book to sign, then they can't complain when there's a problem later. I had a game eariler this year where a coach actually complained after a player reported who wasn't in the book that we didn't give him a chance to sign the book; we responded it was a courtesy and not a requirement, but he still argued it was required. At any rate, I had many more book related technicals this year than in all my years of previous basketball officiating.

These were posted as ideas, not specific word for word rule changes or to be strictly interpreted as such. I'm just trying to get a discussion going, so ignore absolutes like "all."

[ChuckElias]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

4. Then explain how the lead can see both the rim and the feet of players on the lane opposite him. I have as good a perifial vision as anyone and get back farther than everyone, yet I still have trouble seeing both the rim and the players' feet.

Explain why the Lead is looking at the rim. . .?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

2. I think you should know I was gearing for the fouling to stop the clock crowd. That would mean this wouldn't apply, obviously, to player control fouls. Perhaps a little thought would have to be given to team control fouls, but as of now, I don't see exempting them as a problem either.

4. Then explain how the lead can see both the rim and the feet of players on the lane opposite him. I have as good a perifial vision as anyone and get back farther than everyone, yet I still have trouble seeing both the rim and the players' feet. Further, it isn't necessary. There's no reason not to allow them in the lane. If there's a foul, call the foul. I played under this rule in HS and before (I think) and then the rule changed. Why they changed it back I don't know.

5. It isn't a rule per se, but more of a custom that I don't like. I was out of officiating for a while and came back in, and now it seems to be of widespread use in varsity and JV games. I'd prefer just to check the book at 10 and leave it at that. Some say if you give the coach the book to sign, then they can't complain when there's a problem later. I had a game eariler this year where a coach actually complained after a player reported who wasn't in the book that we didn't give him a chance to sign the book; we responded it was a courtesy and not a requirement, but he still argued it was required. At any rate, I had many more book related technicals this year than in all my years of previous basketball officiating.

2) Why would you penalize the offensive team more than the defensive team just because it's in the last minute? You also might be gearing for the "fouling to stop the clock crowd" but you're also penalizing the defense when they are ahead and don't really want to stop the clock, but they commit a foul trying to play good defense anyway.

4) Geeze, I don't know. I've never really had a problem and I've heard other official say that they haven't had any problems either. Other readers....are you having a problem making this call? Btw, if you are having trouble watching the ball hit the rim and the player's feet at the same time, then you're gonna have a heckuva lot more trouble watching the feet across the lane and the shooter's hands at the same time. As for the reason not to allow players into the paint until the ball hits? The rule was instituted to cut down the excess contact and wrestling matches that were going on during the earlier release rule.

5) Might be a custom in a few places but it ain't a rule. I've never heard of it being a widespread custom either. It ain't a good custom either imo. During the last 10 minutes before game time, a head coach has got a heckuva lot more on his mind than worrying about the book. That's why they have assistants and managers. If the FED wants to institute something like that, then they should just add the coach's signature to the list of what must be in the book at the 10 minute mark. That way, we don't chase anybody and we just have to look at the book- and if a signature isn't there----> team technical foul. I don't think that one is gonna fly though. Jmo, but you're gonna get a lot of screaming head coaches if you try to implement that one.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

2) Why would you penalize the offensive team more than the defensive team just because it's in the last minute? You also might be gearing for the "fouling to stop the clock crowd" but you're also penalizing the defense when they are ahead and don't really want to stop the clock, but they commit a foul trying to play good defense anyway.

4) Geeze, I don't know. I've never really had a problem and I've heard other official say that they haven't had any problems either. Other readers....are you having a problem making this call? Btw, if you are having trouble watching the ball hit the rim and the player's feet at the same time, then you're gonna have a heckuva lot more trouble watching the feet across the lane and the shooter's hands at the same time. As for the reason not to allow players into the paint until the ball hits? The rule was instituted to cut down the excess contact and wrestling matches that were going on during the earlier release rule.

5) Might be a custom in a few places but it ain't a rule. I've never heard of it being a widespread custom either. It ain't a good custom either imo. During the last 10 minutes before game time, a head coach has got a heckuva lot more on his mind than worrying about the book. That's why they have assistants and managers. If the FED wants to institute something like that, then they should just add the coach's signature to the list of what must be in the book at the 10 minute mark. That way, we don't chase anybody and we just have to look at the book- and if a signature isn't there----> team technical foul. I don't think that one is gonna fly though. Jmo, but you're gonna get a lot of screaming head coaches if you try to implement that one.

Surely you are not JMO from the other board?????

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Surely you are not JMO from the other board?????

JMO changed his nickname from the original GL to JMO just to tell everybody that it's "just my opinion" on every post that he makes.

Hell, he makes more sense than that OMT guy......

And dont call me Shirley....

[Dan_ref]

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie

Some not listed that I want changed:
2. Make all non-shooting fouls under 1 minute in the 4th quarter 2 shots plus point of interruption. I strongly disagree with Fed's comments that fouling to stop the clock is an acceptable part of the game. Why does the rules committee feel that committing a rules infraction should be considered part of the game? Now, this will usually mean 2 shots and the ball, however, point of interruption may need to be defined more precisely and if the foul is during a shot, it goes AP -- so it's not strictly the same as intentional foul.

5. Require the head coach to sign the scorebook 10 minutes prior to the game (or less by state association adoption for subvarsity competition). The officials shouldn't have to chase down the head coach and give them the option of signing or approving the book when he or she doesn't want to, then get yelled when they didn't do it and the team has incorrect info.

There was an "experiment" by the fed a few years ago where they tried to implement what you suggest: end of game fouls to stop the clock (strategic fouls) are against the laws of nature and are to be penalized with an intentional foul. They even wanted us to call intentional when the coach yelled "foul 'em". It was a disaster because stategic fouls ARE a part of the game & the fed finally did away with that idiotic interpretation, leading to the current interpretation. What you want the fed to do is never, ever going to happen.

On the book thing, I have no idea why this is a big deal. You're right, the officials shouldn't be chasing anybody down. If you want to be a hard@ss about administrative fouls then the rules permit you to do so at exactly 10 minutes before the start of the game. And if a coach ever yelled at me because HE screwed up the book I would have no problem giving his opponents 2 more FTs.

[Zebraguy]

Well, I think some of the rule changes would be fine. They should be:

2 - 36 min halves with a 30 second shot clock for boys
2 - 32 min halves with a 35 second shot cock for girls

Grey pin stripped shirts for officials so that they are not so obvious on the court. Officials should be heard, (whistle) instead of seen.

12 foot coaching box...keep them contained.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

JMO changed his nickname from the original GL to JMO just to tell everybody that it's "just my opinion" on every post that he makes.

Hell, he makes more sense than that OMT guy......

And dont call me Shirley....

Don't know OMT, but JMO has published his own rule book.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Zebraguy

Grey pin stripped shirts for officials so that they are not so obvious on the court. Officials should be heard, (whistle) instead of seen.

Naw, I can't agree with that either. The idea of implementing the distinctive striped-shirts many, many moons ago was so that players would have no difficulty determining between the players and the officials out on the floor. And the saying "officials should be not be noticed" refers to our actions on trhe court, not our visibility.

Welcome to the forum.

[Zebraguy]

agreed...there is no issue there with me on that...i'm satisfied, but it might give a different touch. What is the current status on the grey shirts? Is this rumor or is it a possiblity? I hear alot of talk. Thanks, i'm glad to be a member...I didn't even know there was such a site.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

Don't know OMT, but JMO has published his own rule book.

Meet the real OMT..... who also posts here....

[Zebraguy]

man that little fella needs some "athletic support". May be a problem on the court