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Hi all,
I have been reading this forum for several months now and as a new referee have learned much from many of the threads. Now I have the courage to post a question of my own. In a middle school youth game other day, A1 and B1 fight for a rebound and both are holding the ball. A1 is a bigger and stronger player than B1. Referees call a jump ball. Just as the whistle blows for the jump ball, A1 rips the ball out of B1's hands and sends B1 to the floor. No contact between players other than the ball being forcefully pulled away. B1 gets hurt (banged her head on the floor but not seriously, just shaken up) from falling to the floor. B1 gets replaced. As B1 is being replaced, the referee decides to change the held ball call to a foul. My question is, should a foul be called in this situation? The only basis for a foul I could see was excessive force but no contact with the other player was made. I would not have called the foul on player A. What do you think? |
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remeber I use FIBA rules but I wouldn't have called it.
Yes it's using lots of force but unless there's contact you can't call a personal foul (there must be physical contact to be a PF) The exception is if the player was intending to hurt her opponent by pushing the ball on her or something similar, that would be an unsporting or disqualifing foul (or Technical, Flagrant (I think) in the US)
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then I must ask, for what? Excessive use of force, ur just opponent having bad balance (could be so)?
If the intent wasn't to hurt the opponent, why the T?
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Score the Basket!!!! |
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For the play described, I would go with a held ball. However, since the calling official changed his call to a foul, maybe he saw something we didn't.
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In the play described above, both players had hands on the ball. Instincts say pull it away. If it can be pulled away before there is a whistle then ITS LIVE!! In the afore mentioned play both players had hands on the ball and I'm sure were trying to pull it away, my question is how can this be an unsporting act, the whistle hadnt blown. Had the whistle blown and A1 continued to pull and swung B1 to the ground then yes, unsporting. In this case IMO its a jumpball.
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Nate |
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Nate |
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Would you feel differently if he'd said, "Just as the larger player pulled the ball away, my partner blew his whistle. At the same moment B1 fell and hurt herself." In terms of the rules, that's what happened. |
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enough force to put someone on the floor isn't much, e.g lots of big ppl (mostly those fighting for rebounds) sweat a lot (me for example). This makes your grip bad, and if the ball has bad grip, and you lose grasp when somebody pulls the ball, your body is trying to follow the ball, and when the support of the ball (the hands on the ball is keeping your balance) suddenly is gone (becuse you slip, or the ball is pulled away) you fall to the ground, try it, have somebody hold a ball, lean forward, you don't even have to let go to realise it's easy to lose your balance, just becuse a player falls does not mean the opponent commited an unsporting act, hold balls are difficult situations to officiate just becuse of the contact and force involved, but it's also hard to penalise fouls in hold ball situations, and always will be. But I still stand that if a player falls, it does not mean an unsporting act, how ever ,if the whistle is blown, players still struggles and then somebody's forced to the ground, that may warrant a T
Then I remembered this just before hitting submit: "If a player is risking injury from the force in a hold-ball situation, the officials are to IMMEDIETLY call the jump ball to ensure saftey of the players" If you don't quit pulling then, I would T the player, but as long as somebody isn't swining elbows or risking to injury a player, let them drag for a few seconds (3 usually is good) then call the jump ball, player falls often, in 9 of 10 cases it's not becuse of the opponent getting them to the ground, it's slipping or losing balance. I'm sorry if this is a long and bad written post (I think it is) but I don't have the time to go through it and correct it, if it's totaly weird I'll edit it though
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Do you ever feel like your stuff strutted off without you? |
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However, that also sureashell ain't gonna change my opinion. |
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