rules

[Oz Referee]

Originally posted by yoyo
situations:

5 second throw in rule..... Player throwing in releases ball at 4.5 seconds on a long high looping pass that is caught 3 seconds after release..... 7.5 since count started...... violation??? or not???


top of backboard... in/ out????? ever vary????


thanks.

FIBA - violation - the 5 second count stops when a player (in a legal position on the court) touches the ball

[Nevadaref]

Yet another reason why FIBA is idiotic.

We have a HS gym out here that has fan-shaped backboards. They play varsity games in it. A couple of seasons ago they even hosted a regional playoff game there.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Yet another reason why FIBA is idiotic.

I wouldn't say it's idiotic. High School (and NCAA, I think) used to be the same way. When did the HS rule change? Late '80s?

I think the new rule is better, but obviously people used to think FIBA's way made sense. It prevents the unlikely secenario of an inbounder dropping the ball onto the playing court and nobody touching it for 8 minutes.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I wouldn't say it's idiotic. High School (and NCAA, I think) used to be the same way. When did the HS rule change? Late '80s?

I think the new rule is better, but obviously people used to think FIBA's way made sense. It prevents the unlikely secenario of an inbounder dropping the ball onto the playing court and nobody touching it for 8 minutes.

You're right. The high school and NCAA rule at one time was 5 seconds from the time the thrower got the ball until it was touched on the court. Made for some interesting calls- like a whistle blowing while a long throw-in was in the air to the front court. I think that they changed it years before the early 80's though, iirc.

Personally, I don't think that the FIBA rule is idiotic- just different. The players will adjust to whatever rule they're given anyway.

[Oz Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Yet another reason why FIBA is idiotic.

WTF - get off your high-horse! It actually makes a lot more sense. The game clock doesn't start until a player touches the ball, therefor the 5 second count doesn't stop until the same.

If anything, the NFHS/NCAA rules don't make sense. Under these rules a player could throw the ball in, no one touch it, so the clock doesn't start, and this could happen indefinitely - what a crazy situation! This sitch could NEVER happen under FIBA rules, as a 5 second violation would be called.

Oh I'm sorry - since I disagree with you I'm obviously an idiot!

[mick]

Originally posted by Oz Referee

WTF - get off your high-horse! It actually makes a lot more sense. The game clock doesn't start until a player touches the ball, therefor the 5 second count doesn't stop until the same.

If anything, the NFHS/NCAA rules don't make sense. Under these rules a player could throw the ball in, no one touch it, so the clock doesn't start, and this could happen indefinitely - what a crazy situation! This sitch could NEVER happen under FIBA rules, as a 5 second violation would be called.

Oh I'm sorry - since I disagree with you I'm obviously an idiot!

Duane,
How's your Spring?
Lotsa flowers?

mick

[ThickSkin]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

You wouldn't be able to confirm it even if you had your rule books available.

The answer is no. The 10-second count terminates as soon as the ball hits the floor or any player, including opponents, in the frontcourt too. That includes hitting an official in the front court also.

Casebook play 9.8SitB.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Nov 1st, 2005 at 09:08 AM]

If the ball is still in flight? Example: Count is at 9.5/10 I throw the ball from my backcourt to the front court (one of those high arching Joe Montana passes LOL!) and as the official gets to ten he has a 10 second violation. Is he correct?

[mick]

Originally posted by ThickSkin

If the ball is still in flight? Example: Count is at 9.5/10 I throw the ball from my backcourt to the front court (one of those high arching Joe Montana passes LOL!) and as the official gets to ten he has a 10 second violation. Is he correct?

ThickSkin
Well, yeah the official is correct.
But my count was at 9.6, ..... 9.7.
M'bad.
mick

[ThickSkin]

Originally posted by mick
ThickSkin
Well, yeah the official is correct.
But my count was at 9.6, ..... 9.7.
M'bad.
mick

That is my thought as well. I just wanted to be 100% sure. I don't see myself EVER calling that!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ThickSkin

If the ball is still in flight? Example: Count is at 9.5/10 I throw the ball from my backcourt to the front court (one of those high arching Joe Montana passes LOL!) and as the official gets to ten he has a 10 second violation. Is he correct?

What does that have to do with your original question above- outlined in red?

You said "does the ball have to be possessed by someone on the same team in the front court before ten seconds". You said "yes". I said "ABSOLUTELY NOT". The ball only has to obtain front-court location to end the 10-second count. The ball does NOT have to be "possessed by someone on the same team" to gain front court location. The ball can gain front court location without ever touching the team in possession. That's exactly what the cited case book play is telling you.

[Oz Referee]

Originally posted by mick
Duane,
How's your Spring?
Lotsa flowers?

mick [/B]

G'day Mick,

Spring sure has sprung!! Today is about 32degress (cetigrade - around 90 F)

Looks like it's going to be a hot summer - whats the weather like there?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Oz Referee

WTF - get off your high-horse! It actually makes a lot more sense. The game clock doesn't start until a player touches the ball, therefor the 5 second count doesn't stop until the same.

If anything, the NFHS/NCAA rules don't make sense. Under these rules a player could throw the ball in, no one touch it, so the clock doesn't start, and this could happen indefinitely - what a crazy situation! This sitch could NEVER happen under FIBA rules, as a 5 second violation would be called.

Oh I'm sorry - since I disagree with you I'm obviously an idiot!

Ah, go have cold one and chill out. I'm just participating in Padgett's favorite activity -- FIBA bashing for the sake of FIBA bashing (or is it the French?).

I don't really care one way or the other about how the rule is written.

PS FIBA could change all of their rules to match the NCAA and their governance would still be idiotic!

Now just wait until the real FIBA basher shows up...

[mick]

Originally posted by Oz Referee

G'day Mick,

Spring sure has sprung!! Today is about 32degress (cetigrade - around 90 F)

Looks like it's going to be a hot summer - whats the weather like there? [/B]

30-50 F cloudy.

[ThickSkin]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

What does that have to do with your original question above- outlined in red?

You said "does the ball have to be possessed by someone on the same team in the front court before ten seconds". You said "yes". I said "ABSOLUTELY NOT". The ball only has to obtain front-court location to end the 10-second count. The ball does NOT have to be "possessed by someone on the same team" to gain front court location. The ball can gain front court location without ever touching the team in possession. That's exactly what the cited case book play is telling you.

Yeah, I know. I didn't get my thoughts together before I posted. If the ball has front court status i.e. floor, team A, team B, official... then the ten second count stops. What I should have asked was if the ball is still in flight does the ten second count stop. Thank you for the clarification though!

[Edited by ThickSkin on Nov 3rd, 2005 at 08:23 AM]

[Lotto]

Originally posted by ThickSkin

If the ball has front court status i.e. floor, team A, team B, official... then the ten second count stops. What I should have asked was if the ball is still in flight does the ten second count stop.

This is from the NCAA rulebook. I expect that NFHS is the same.

A.R. 17. (Men) A1 is in the back court and has dribbled for eight seconds when he passes the ball forward toward A2 in the front court. While the ball is in the air, going from back court to front court, the 10-second count expires.
RULING: Violation. The ball shall be awarded to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where A1 was standing when he threw the ball.