Block, charge or blarge ?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by blindzebra


The contact was not hard enough to floor the defender on that play, he sold the call which I consider a flop.

You have obviously never attended any camps or heard any big time officials talk about block/charge if you need to have contact through the torso explained to you.

Obviously not. The only camp I attend is the yearly half hour cyo training session, but I missed it last year. Which is why I got dropped to 4th grade games.

But thanks for your obviously well thought out reply.

And btw, that aint a flop in the 4th grade cyo leagues I work. Maybe it is up in the 5th grade leagues you work.

[M&M Guy]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

In live action, I thought this was an easy PC foul. Only after seeing others early comments did I review it in slow motion and realize it wasn't so easy.

That was my thought as well - it's one thing seeing it live in full speed, then watching again in slow-motion (or even other angles). My thought was PC as well, but if other people thought otherwise, what can I learn to watch for differently? Or is this so close that we should live with some of us calling PC while others call block, and we could both give legitimate reasons?

And, where can we find more of these videos? Perhaps a "Video of the Week" discussion?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Obviously not. The only camp I attend is the yearly half hour cyo training session, but I missed it last year. Which is why I got dropped to 4th grade games.

But thanks for your obviously well thought out reply.

And btw, that aint a flop in the 4th grade cyo leagues I work. Maybe it is up in the 5th grade leagues you work.

LOL!!

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Obviously not. The only camp I attend is the yearly half hour cyo training session, but I missed it last year. Which is why I got dropped to 4th grade games.

But thanks for your obviously well thought out reply.

And btw, that aint a flop in the 4th grade cyo leagues I work. Maybe it is up in the 5th grade leagues you work.

First, what's your problem? You always come out with some smarta$$ comment and go on the attack.

You don't like me or my opinion, IGNORE my posts.

As for explaining it, it's simple. A1 moves into B1's torso but stops on contact and turns away, automatic PC foul or do we need more?

Displacement is caused by contact that goes through a player's location, i.e. A1's shoulder goes past the spot where the front of B1's torso was at the point of contact.

In the video in question A1 stops at first contact and turns to his left to avoid B1, thus it was glancing contact and not contact through the defender.

B1 had LGP and took contact on the torso, but IMO that contact did not cause the amount of displacement B1 showed on the video. B1 hit the spot and loaded up to fall back on contact. There was no contact through the defender and no pushoff with the right arm to cause that fall.

B1 met the guidelines to draw a PC foul but he still sold it, acted if you will, and IMO that is flopping. Without his "acting" I'm pretty sure we'd have seen a no-call on that play.

[Man in Grey]

Thought I'd drop in to see if someone responded lol

Fantastic this discusion. It comes from a dutch ref site, don't know where the admin got it from, but we have a big discusion overthere too.

On the first I thought I saw a block after one view, and in slo mo, all charge posts made me doubt again. But I still think first contact is on the upperleg and not the torso.

I'm particularly intrested in ways to see this in the one time you get as a ref in the game.

Position is so d#mn important as always.

Btw thx for all your input

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by blindzebra

First, what's your problem? You always come out with some smarta$$ comment and go on the attack.

You don't like me or my opinion, IGNORE my posts.

As for explaining it, it's simple. A1 moves into B1's torso but stops on contact and turns away, automatic PC foul or do we need more?

Displacement is caused by contact that goes through a player's location, i.e. A1's shoulder goes past the spot where the front of B1's torso was at the point of contact.

In the video in question A1 stops at first contact and turns to his left to avoid B1, thus it was glancing contact and not contact through the defender.

B1 had LGP and took contact on the torso, but IMO that contact did not cause the amount of displacement B1 showed on the video. B1 hit the spot and loaded up to fall back on contact. There was no contact through the defender and no pushoff with the right arm to cause that fall.

B1 met the guidelines to draw a PC foul but he still sold it, acted if you will, and IMO that is flopping. Without his "acting" I'm pretty sure we'd have seen a no-call on that play.

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by blindzebra

First, what's your problem? You always come out with some smarta$$ comment and go on the attack.

Uh, BZ, think maybe you brought it on yourself ?

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy

Uh, BZ, think maybe you brought it on yourself ?

It's not just this thread but here is his first reply.

"Flop? What does a defender have to do for you to not think he was flopping? IMO that kid played great defense.

And where in the rules or case books can I find this "contact through the torso" thing?"

This goes back to the closely guarded stuff last year. Do a little research and you'll see he ALWAYS takes a shot.

[Jurassic Referee]

[canuckrefguy]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Well.....

That's a switch, now isn't it?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by canuckrefguy

Well.....

That's a switch, now isn't it?

Say what?

Somehow you must have formed the wrong impression of me.......

I'm just a cuddly, l'i pooh bear.

[Dan_ref]

What did I miss?

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by tomegun

Are you saying that you took the time to open up the file, look at the play and didn't make a solid judgement one way or the other until you read something someone else posted?

[/B]

I had read the thread without looking at the videos. After seeing their were different opinions, I decided to have a look. When I clicked on the video, it opened in Windows Media Player. I watched it in full speed...though both were clearly PC fouls.

I wanted to see it in slo-mo but Window Media Player apparently doesn't do that (as far as I could tell) and I didn't have time to figure out which viewer I had that could do it.

I came back to it later and viewed it with a different viewer that could do frame-by-frame advance and super slow-mo. It wasn't so obvious anymore. I changed my opinion to block and posted my thoughts.

[Stripes1950]

I will stick with my original calls of PC on both. I don't have the advantage of stop action or slo-mo on the court. But like I said before, if a partner asked me, block is a great call.

[NICK]

Any possibilities of getting any more of these clips? They are a great teaching tool and a good topic of discussion. Are there any links available to get these clips from?