and one

paulis · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 28, 2001, 11:27pm

What are your thoughts with regards to a coach shouting "and one!" after one of his players attempts a try and he thinks his player was fouled. I have had some partners who warn and/or T coaches for this comment.

BktBallRef · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Feb 28, 2001, 11:38pm

Usually, it's not what a coach says that gets him a T from me. It's usually how he says it, or that he's continued to do something that I've warned him about. If this was a lone incident and he was being a good coach, I can easily ignore this little remark. I've heard lots worse.

Peter Devana · #3 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 12:15am

IGNORE IT

BigDave · #4 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 01:46am

If it's constant, I'll mention it to him. If he persists, he gets a T.

JRutledge · #5 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 02:04am

I see no purpose in making an issue about it. As long as they are not complaining about anything, I see no reason to say a word. They are bias, it is what they do.

KDM · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 11:11am

Its a warning or a technical. Rule 10 is fairly clear. He/she can not attempt to influence your decision. He/she can not taunt or bait in objection to an official's decision. Even if the decision is 'not to call a foul'. He/she can not incite unfavorable crowd reaction, although that may not have occurred in this situation. But, rest assured, it is likely that this behavior may incite the crowd. I'm a firm believer that you officiate within the 'spirit and intent' of the rules rather than the literal sense. However, when a coach attempts to circumvent the 'spirit and intent', we might have to revert to the literal meanings of the rule. Allowing this behavior to continue, most likely, will escalate to other undesirable behaviors. So, my answer is to 'nip it in the bud' immediately and don't pass the problem to the next group of officials that may work his/her game.

mcdanrd · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 11:38am

OK, I'm dense, but what does "and one" mean?

BktBallRef · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 11:46am

Wow! Are you really an official?

Players and, to a lesser extent, coaches yell "And 1!, " when a player hits a shot and they think he got fouled.

BktBallRef · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 11:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by KDM
Its a warning or a technical. Rule 10 is fairly clear. He/she can not attempt to influence your decision. He/she can not taunt or bait in objection to an official's decision. Even if the decision is 'not to call a foul'. He/she can not incite unfavorable crowd reaction, although that may not have occurred in this situation. But, rest assured, it is likely that this behavior may incite the crowd. I'm a firm believer that you officiate within the 'spirit and intent' of the rules rather than the literal sense. However, when a coach attempts to circumvent the 'spirit and intent', we might have to revert to the literal meanings of the rule. Allowing this behavior to continue, most likely, will escalate to other undesirable behaviors. So, my answer is to 'nip it in the bud' immediately and don't pass the problem to the next group of officials that may work his/her game.

Based on what you just wrote, if you're calling technical fouls in a situation like this, you are calling the games by the letter of the rule. If he yells 3 seconds or over the back one time, do you call a T? My guess is no.

mcdanrd · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 12:25pm

Must be an East Coast thing. I've been officiating 7th grade-HS bball for 6 years, 100+ games per season, and watching bball for more years than I care to admit. I"ve heard plenty of "over the back" or "three seconds" or even an occasional "YOU STINK" but never "and 1."

DrC. · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 12:54pm

MCDANRD,

There is even a clothing and shoe line !!!

Do you have TV ??? Have you heard about Survivor ???

"And 1" is what the Dads now yell out from the bleachers as "3 seconds" has migrated as the favorite for the Moms....

mcdanrd · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 01:14pm

Actually we do not have TV. We had the cable disconnected last summer. Best thing we ever did, although my kids don't agree. Soooooooooooooo, I have not seen Survivor or any of the other popular "Reality" TV shows. I do manage to find a TV when the Sooners or Cowboys are playing. Now that I've read this post I'll know I'm being criticized when I do here it. Too bad, I probably would have though the coach was yelling some instruction to his team.

KDM · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 01:23pm

A guess is like an opinion ... What I said was, 'Its a WARNING or a TECHNICAL'. By the 'letter of the rule' it's a technical, by the 'spirit and intent' it's a warning. When a coach yells, "and one", basically they have said, "Call a foul". Why do we turn a 'deaf' ear? How many times, on a shot, are you going to allow a coach to yell, "call a foul". I bet not many. So what's the difference? Same thing on yelling 'three seconds'. How many times are you going to turn a deaf ear? At what point do we say 'enough'? After the first time, or maybe, the sixteenth time? The jest of my response was to acknowledge what the coach said. If you officiate by the 'letter of the rule', its a technical. If you officiate by the 'spirit and intent' of the rules, its a warning. But turning a deaf ear to a violation of rule 10 is not an option. My experience has proven that if you stop this behavior initially, it decreases the chances that you'll have to deal with it later in the game.

Based on what you just wrote, if you're calling technical fouls in a situation like this, you are calling the games by the letter of the rule. If he yells 3 seconds or over the back one time, do you call a T? My guess is no. [/B][/QUOTE]

co2ice · #14 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 06:44pm

Early on this year I had a coach who kept saying "and one". After the third time my partner turned to him and said. Wheres the disadvantage coach, you got the basket didn't you"? The coach became strangley silent. I later learned that this guy hates to call 2 and 1's, and from what I'm told he does'nt. I do when the fouls committed but some feel its a test to see if they can hold their whistle til the plays complete. I would not warn or T for this.

Hawks Coach · #15 (**permalink**) Thu Mar 01, 2001, 07:35pm

Quote:

Originally posted by co2ice
Early on this year I had a coach who kept saying "and one". After the third time my partner turned to him and said. Wheres the disadvantage coach, you got the basket didn't you"? The coach became strangley silent. I later learned that this guy hates to call 2 and 1's, and from what I'm told he does'nt. I do when the fouls committed but some feel its a test to see if they can hold their whistle til the plays complete. I would not warn or T for this.

I fail to understand why somebody refuses to call fouls on made baskets. You shouldn't have to miss to get to the line.

As for calling a T when coaches yell three seconds, over the back, etc., it is usually ignored in my experience unless it is way excessive or the ref is personally abusive toward the official. Every coach is trying to influence an official when you get down to it. Not saying that's right, but I don't see folks calling it as KDM suggests. I think that every ref has a line that coaches shouldn't cross. Some coaches are right up against that line every game, many don't come close that often and some never get there. If you cross it, WHACK!!! But "and 1" is not usually where that line is drawn.

For Mcdan, "and 1" is also pickup ball slang. In pickup, you call it before your shot falls as a way of calling your foul (you also call "ball" in some places - depends where you play). It's just more kewl than yelling foul every time you get hacked.