One of THOSE partners

[bradfordwilkins]

Yikes. Just got back from a shift with a partner who fit the stereotype for a referee's worst nightmare. Well not quite, I'm sure there are worse.

Here's the scenerio.

We've got Team A who is playing REALLY aggressive, close to dirty. Lots of bumping and pushing and holding. Even on offense they'd lower their shoulders and plow right into guys. Team B kept their composure and played a clean game.

So obviously at halftime the foul count is something like 12 to 4 with Team A ahead. My partners come together and partner B who is just as much a rookie as I am, lets us know the foul count. I said ok. He then instructs us that we shouldn't call any more fouls on Team A until the foul count is closer to even. I told him thats not our job, if Team B wants to make the foul count closer they can.

Still the half begins and neither of my partners are blowing anything on Team A, making me look like the guy with the grudge or something. I had actually called a tech on a bench player for walking a step on the floor as I was coming up on the trail and yelling at me to "call that ****" in the first half.

Also on Team A you had Mr. Know-it-all who assured me that he was a certified referee and that I had called a charge when the defensive players feet were moving. I corrected him, I had called a Player Control foul when he plowed into the torso of the player with his feet moving after establishing Legal Guarding position. He told me I didn't know anything because the defense can't move their feet. As if that wasn't bad enough, later in the game after a no call on a clean block he comes up to me and shows me his hand which is a little bit red. He said, obviously you missed the call because it wasn't all ball. I reminded him that the hand is part of the ball. He said no thats not true. I asked him to bring me the rule telling me its not. He said ok. Can't wait lol.

So yea, Team A ended up winning the game because my partners weren't calling anything on them and Team B continued to play clean so weren't catching up in the foul count. Geez.

I should've known something was wrong the game before ( a blowout) when my partner thought we should call every touch foul on the team up 20 points to try to even things up on the scoreboard. I let him know I'll be calling things the same way. He looked confused and tried to pursuade me.

Rough night. lol.

Venting finishing

[Hartsy]

I continue to be amazed at how often I hear about an official trying to "even up" the foul count. Thankfully, it hasn't been an issue with me in any of my games.

How do these people consider that they are officiating fairly when they are INTENTIONALLY calling the game differently for each team?

It's one thing to discuss if you are missing anything, to figure out if the foul count is accurate or not, but something entirely different to assume that it should be even in every game. If that is the case, dont call anything at all and fouls will be even at zero to zero.

Just my $0.02.

[Adam]

Sophomore boys last night (one more hs game left for me), and early first half foul count is 7-2. I hear V coach griping about it quietly on the bench; but before I knew it the fouls evened out on their own.
Of course, this was just a hack fest between to marginal 4A sophomore teams.

[ChrisSportsFan]

What kind of game was this that you would let a player give you that much crap? If he really was a certified ref, I'm sure he would have understood when this certified ref wasn't going to hear anymore of it.

[bradfordwilkins]

College Intermurals, the Land of Warnings. Where you don't get a tech unless you cuss directly at us.

So much so in this same game I had a punk kid who was playing dirty all night and started bumping another player and then started pushing him confrontationally. I went to split them up and called a Flagrant Intentional to get him out of the game. My previously mentioned partner came over and told me he thought it would look bad to toss the guy without a warning, so he goes down and reports a COMMON foul... not even an intentional. I issue a warning to the player and captain.

About 15-20 seconds left in the game I am lead and see a bit of a melay down at the other end of the court my p is splitting the two players up again. HE calls ANOTHER common foul on the punk doing the pushing and yapping. I told him we had warned him, he should be tossed. My p told me it'd be bad to eject someone at the end of the game. What this does now is let this punk be some other referee's problem NEXT game, because if he were ejected he'd be suspended for the season.

Craziness. They're not all bad over here, just a select few.

[SpeedyGonGoalie]

Yeah, intramurals is hell. Talking about baptism by fire, for new officials.

When I'm not scorekeeping, and someone asks me what the foul count is like, I normally say "Some for you, some for them" or something ambigous like that. If they press, I'll go get the actual number. If someone asks why the fouls are not even, I typically explain that some teams foul more than others, then point out something that the one team is doing to rack up fouls (normally reaching on drives). When I do scorekeep, and some asks about the fouls, I give them a run down of who's in foul trouble on their team. Normally it's a lot more specific than what they normally get from scorekeepers, so they forget about their original intent (to compare team fouls). I've even gone as far as not using an even foul count to back up my officiating. I hate it. It means nothing. Especially with our intramural rules, where teams fouls are not counted (automatic double bonus in the last minute of each half). The only time I typically get really even foul counts is games that I am calling especially tight, with a good partner, when fouls are even just because everything is being called. Typically then, they back off, and nothing is called, because no one is fouling. I know if I'm having a bad game and letting something go on one end that I'm calling on the other. Foul counts only tell what you called, not what you didn't.

[Rich]

Originally posted by bradfordwilkins
College Intermurals, the Land of Warnings. Where you don't get a tech unless you cuss directly at us.

So much so in this same game I had a punk kid who was playing dirty all night and started bumping another player and then started pushing him confrontationally. I went to split them up and called a Flagrant Intentional to get him out of the game. My previously mentioned partner came over and told me he thought it would look bad to toss the guy without a warning, so he goes down and reports a COMMON foul... not even an intentional. I issue a warning to the player and captain.

About 15-20 seconds left in the game I am lead and see a bit of a melay down at the other end of the court my p is splitting the two players up again. HE calls ANOTHER common foul on the punk doing the pushing and yapping. I told him we had warned him, he should be tossed. My p told me it'd be bad to eject someone at the end of the game. What this does now is let this punk be some other referee's problem NEXT game, because if he were ejected he'd be suspended for the season.

Craziness. They're not all bad over here, just a select few.

WHY let your partner walk all over you? YOU report the flagrant and if your partner doesn't like it, he can leave.

I haven't worked rec ball in a few years, but I had a simple philosophy -- no warnings. Whack away. If the hiring people didn't like it, that was one less headache for me. But they ALL wanted to hire people that would take care of crap so they didn't have to.

This behavior starts and ends with attitudes like your partner's. Throw a couple of people out and word starts getting around and, magically, people start behaving better.

[SpeedyGonGoalie]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
WHY let your partner walk all over you? YOU report the flagrant and if your partner doesn't like it, he can leave.

I haven't worked rec ball in a few years, but I had a simple philosophy -- no warnings. Whack away. If the hiring people didn't like it, that was one less headache for me. But they ALL wanted to hire people that would take care of crap so they didn't have to.

This behavior starts and ends with attitudes like your partner's. Throw a couple of people out and word starts getting around and, magically, people start behaving better.

That reminds me of something else. Our intramural program is not the "Land of Warnings". In a college setting, you are under a stricter code of conduct than the law, or what most associations will establish. With little formal power structure (i.e. no coaches), no one to discipline or control players and fans, and the wide range of officiating skill which leads to angry fans and players, it should be especially easy to throw someone out. The player you T up is not a coach with clout in a state association. Here, we have a policy of backing up officials 100%. Never have I seen someone let someone back into a game after being thrown out. More often than not, incidents are investigated and players are punished even if no technical was called or players were ejected. I've worked with partners who were more strict than me, or been the head official (like supervisor) for the same officials. Sure, I might not agree with the calls, but they made them, and as long as I can tell it isn't pure malice on the part of the officials and the player at least somewhat deserved it (even remotely), then I'll back them up.

Undisciplined, agressive players more used to playing pick-up games than anything with officials shouldn't get more leeway, more control is neccessary.

[tmp44]

Let me add something similar to the trying to "even out" concept. I've worked with a few partners this year (3-man) who have said that on a double whistle, if he/she has gone to the table the last few times, whether it's in his/her primary or not, the other person should take it. I've further had one partner say that if she had been to the table 2 or 3 times in a row, it would take a lot (i.e. a pretty hard/obvious foul) to get her there a 4th time. Anyone experience anything similar to this? Thoughts?

[SpeedyGonGoalie]

I refed a game a few nights ago where a kid reached in and poked a player in the eye (he was ok). This was right at the end of the first half. Coming out of halftime, me and my partner (who is one of the best refs in intramurals) and I agreed to clean up the reaches (which I really hard for me, so I was impressed with myself when it worked). The first 4 or 5 trips down the floor, I called reaches. I reported them every time. I have no problem going to the table over and over again. At first a team will probably say something about letting stuff go. After that, they'll be so sick of seeing you go "Red 2-5 with the reach, out of bounds" over and over and not playing (we have a running clock most of the game) that they get the message and stop.

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by SpeedyGonGoalie
I refed a game a few nights ago where a kid reached in and poked a player in the eye (he was ok). This was right at the end of the first half. Coming out of halftime, me and my partner (who is one of the best refs in intramurals) and I agreed to clean up the reaches (which I really hard for me, so I was impressed with myself when it worked). The first 4 or 5 trips down the floor, I called reaches. I reported them every time. I have no problem going to the table over and over again. At first a team will probably say something about letting stuff go. After that, they'll be so sick of seeing you go "Red 2-5 with the reach, out of bounds" over and over and not playing (we have a running clock most of the game) that they get the message and stop.

So you were calling personal fouls during a live ball when there was no contact? Not only that, you were calling a foul that doesn't exist. There had to have been a better way.

[ref18]

Remember, reaching in is completely legal. It is only a foul when contact is made, and then it is reported as 'illegal use of the hands'.

And going to the origional post, let me guess, this was the kind of guy who would try to keep the star player in the game

[Adam]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

So you were calling personal fouls during a live ball when there was no contact? Not only that, you were calling a foul that doesn't exist. There had to have been a better way.

Myths perpetuated. These college kids end up having children of their own and screaming at officials who don't call "reaching in" during their 6th grade basketball game.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Myths perpetuated. These college kids end up having children of their own and screaming at officials who don't call "reaching in" during their 6th grade basketball game.

Reaching in! Over the back! Three seconds! Traveling!

Oh my.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

Reaching in! Over the back! Three seconds! Traveling!

Oh my.

OOH OOH!!
Don't forget about the high dribble. "CARRY! REF, HE CARRIED IT!!!!"