The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 02:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
I remember a year or two ago, there was a point of emphasis about keeping players out of the center circle during the pre-game activities. Most of us on this board didn't really need that, but it appeared that somewhere in the US it had been a problem. Well, the situation reared its ugly head last night, right here in Oregon (outside of Portland, in the charming little burg of Sandy.)

I did the freshman girls' game and JV girls' game, then stayed to watch the varsity game. Apparently, these two schools are rivals, and there's been a lot of "bad blood" between them over the years (one of the assistant coaches explained it to us at half-time of the JV game.) I didn't think the JV game was too bad, although there were a few cheap fouls taken with a sort of attitude. Both freshman and JV games were close, home won them both.

Before the varsity game began, everything went as normal. Warm-ups, captains/coaches, book fine, game ball, Star-Spangled Banner all seemed uneventful. Announcer began introducing the visitors' starting line-up, and they did the usual shake hands with refs, coach, and then they were collecting in the center circle. When that was done, the whole team ran out to the center, and did this little huddle, cheer, pep rally thing like they do.

Meantime, the lights dim, the spotlights start roaming around the gym and this loud music comes on. Announcer says the name of the first home starter, she runs out to the center circle WHERE THE WHOLE VISITING TEAM IS STILL STANDING IN THEIR HUDDLE.

Now I had a game Friday evening a week ago with this visiting team at their home, and I had them as visitors at a different school before Christmas, and then didn't do this routine, so I KNOW something is going on here.

So first home team player turns and waves to the crowd, and sort of non-chalantly backs clear up to this huddle of visiting players. She was facing the basket at her bench end of the gym, so she ended up butt to butt with a visiting player, who (in full view of the whole crowd) reached back and pinched the home player's butt quite firmly. Home player jumped and then turned and said something, but by this time, the next home team player had been introduced and was out in the center. They whispered, but didn't take any action, but they also didn't move away. Finally, the whole home team comes running out to center court, does a little cheer kind of off center (since the visitors were STILL ON THE CENTER CIRCLE) and then came back to the bench.

Home coach is lambasting the refs because "this is OUR center circle, and you aren't supposed to allow them out there and why aren't you doing anything about it?" and so on. Refs handled him okay, and the game went on. Home ended up winning by 4 or 5 but only because visitor had to foul the last minute to get the ball. It was basically a tie until then.

After the game, I stayed and talked to the varsity guys. They said they saw all the center circle stuff, but didn't deal with it because they didn't think it was any big deal. By the time the coach was screaming, it was too late to do much.

Now to the 20/20 hindsight: What should a ref do in this situation? When I see that the visitors aren't leaving the center circle, do I stop the announcing and talk to visiting coach? When the first player heads for center court, do I move her at that point to the free-throw circle? Is there a time when a technical foul should be issued?
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 03:07am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,273
I think the POE was for warmups - don't let either team encroach.

Sounds like a deliberate head game to me. In 20/20 hindsight, the announcer should have asked the visitors to clear center court before starting the home introductions. IMOH the whole thing borders on deliberate taunting by the visiting team. The home AD should probably take it up with OSAA.

The pinching incident you described is clearly an unsportsmanlike act - IMOH the player should have been wacked & the game started with the home team shooting free throws getting the ball.

Their opponent wouldn't be the Rams, by chance would it? If so, there is definitely bad blood between them. I had their girls freshman/JV double header at the end of the season last year. The freshmen were fine, but we knew there was potential for problems in the JV game and started right out calling it so tight it squeaked. It didn't take long for them to figure out we weren't going to put up with any crap at all & they quickly settled down & played a prety good game.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 03:31am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,063
In our state the home team is the only ones that can take the center circle. So the visiting team would have to vacate this area or face penalty. Not sure I would use a T for this situation, but I would tell the visiting team they needed to leave the area.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 08:55am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally posted by TimTaylor
I think the POE was for warmups - don't let either team encroach.

Nope, the POE under "PRE-GAME SITUATIONS" from the 2003-04 rule book specifically refers to player introductions also. The quote was "Teams are also competing for the center circle when entering the court or following player introductions".

Suggested in the POE was that the state or individual leagues implement policies and guidelines to cut this crap out, and that coaches should promote sportsmanship( and also sportswomanship). The problem is that coaches still want to play these little games, as evidenced here, and we end up getting caught right in the middle of them. Crap like this shouldn't come up in high school sports(of course I also believe in the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, so take that last statement with a grain of salt). Maybe the best way to handle it is to just follow the last recommendation of the POE and issue a "T" to each team and an accompanying indirect "T" to each coach. Seat-belt them right away. Maybe they'll think about that before they play their little mind games the next time. Jmo.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 09:47am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Carol Stream, IL
Posts: 201
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
In our state the home team is the only ones that can take the center circle. So the visiting team would have to vacate this area or face penalty. Not sure I would use a T for this situation, but I would tell the visiting team they needed to leave the area.

Peace
JRut, rule or POE reference, please.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 10:03am
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,213
Quote:
Originally posted by golfdesigner
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
In our state the home team is the only ones that can take the center circle. So the visiting team would have to vacate this area or face penalty. Not sure I would use a T for this situation, but I would tell the visiting team they needed to leave the area.

Peace
JRut, rule or POE reference, please.
I'll do it for him. Rut's sleeping in.

From the POE in the 2003-04 rule book:
Suggestions for improved behaviour: The state or local athletic conference should establish appropriate pre-game procedures and protocols. A policy could be established confining teams to their own free-throw semi-circle for pre-game huddles or rituals or that only the home team utilizes the center circle".

Iow, each state can set out their own procedure, and Illinois did so, as per JRut.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 11:16am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,612
Juules, we've been enforcing this since it was put into effect last year.

We do not allow a team to circle the opponent when they take the floor. If they attempt to, we try to stop them. If we can't get to them and the do it, we start the game with a T. It's only happened a couple of times during the past two seasons that I know of.

For intros, if the first player moves to the center circle, the referee steps out and reminds him/her that they must move to the FT circle at their end of the floor.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 16, 2005, 04:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 9,466
Send a message via AIM to rainmaker
Quote:
Originally posted by BktBallRef
Juules, we've been enforcing this since it was put into effect last year.

We do not allow a team to circle the opponent when they take the floor. If they attempt to, we try to stop them. If we can't get to them and the do it, we start the game with a T. It's only happened a couple of times during the past two seasons that I know of.

For intros, if the first player moves to the center circle, the referee steps out and reminds him/her that they must move to the FT circle at their end of the floor.
I'm not sure how much we've seen it around here. I have never seen any problem at all till this one. BUt it's good to have a procedure in hand, in case I need it. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 17, 2005, 04:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,627
Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by golfdesigner
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
In our state the home team is the only ones that can take the center circle. So the visiting team would have to vacate this area or face penalty. Not sure I would use a T for this situation, but I would tell the visiting team they needed to leave the area.

Peace
JRut, rule or POE reference, please.
I'll do it for him. Rut's sleeping in.

From the POE in the 2003-04 rule book:
Suggestions for improved behaviour: The state or local athletic conference should establish appropriate pre-game procedures and protocols. A policy could be established confining teams to their own free-throw semi-circle for pre-game huddles or rituals or that only the home team utilizes the center circle".

Iow, each state can set out their own procedure, and Illinois did so, as per JRut.
I do know that this is THE RULE for NCAA games. However, as you have correctly pointed out, the NFHS has left it up to the state associations. Since my state hasn't made any guidelines for this, there is NO RULE which prevents the visitors from being in the center circle for my games.
The coaches would have to sort it out themselves. If they acted in an unsporting manner then I would issue technical fouls, or perhaps I would just laugh at them.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 17, 2005, 09:39am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 306
In our state neither team is allowed to use the center circle during warmups or introductions. Neither team is allowed to run around the perimeter of the court before warmups either. The state says it should be a "T" but what I've seen, and done, is the officials step right in the middle of it when it starts and tell the team either it ends immediately or there will be a "T" by rule. That usually ends it. What I'm starting to see however is teams now using the free throw circle. I personally don't get it. Especially when they all dive on the floor and start pounding the floor with their hands.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:16pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1