NCAA POI, Technical spot

tomegun · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 09:01am

Last night we had a little debate about where the ball is inbounded after a technical where there isn't a POI. The example was a shot is away and someone smacks the backboard (enough to warrant a T). We know if the T is called we shoot 2 shots and go to the arrow. The discussion was mainly about where the ball would be put into play. I'm interested in what you guys think and what section of the rules covers this specifically.

Mark Dexter · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 09:38am

I would say the inbounds spot would be closest to where the ball was when the T was called, based on 7-5 A.R. 13. There still is a POI, and that point is the time when the whistle was blown.

Also, if A shoots an airball and has the arrow, no reset of the shot clock.

tomegun · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 11:06am

So are you saying the rule you used says where to put the ball in play at when the try isn't successful? I didn't read it that way.
There hasn't been much response to this so I will say where this debate went. One view is you put it in bounds near the basket even though there is no team control. It might be fair to one team to have the ball under their hoop or it might be unfair if the team has to go the length of the court. The other option discussed was to put the ball in play at the division line since the ball was loose. What do you think?

ChuckElias · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 11:33am

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
The example was a shot is away and someone smacks the backboard (enough to warrant a T).

If the try is successful, you assess an indirect T, shoot 2 FTs and resume at the POI, which means that Team B will receive the ball anywhere along the end line, just like after any basket.

If the try is not successful, then you assess an indirect T, shoot 2 FTs and resume at the POI. Since there was no team control at the POI, you have to use the arrow. The spot of the throw-in will be at the spot closest to the foul, which is the endline.

tomegun · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 11:38am

Chuck what's your rule reference for the spot. We were talking about a missed shot and I need to have a rule reference for the other guys. I couldn't find one that specified taking the ball out nearest the T when there is no team control.

ChuckElias · #6 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 11:42am

Tommy, I'm at school right now. I should be home within the hour. If Bob or Dan hasn't posted the rule reference by then, I'll dig a little and find it. But it would be the same reference as for any other foul near the endline. Foul occurs in the lane, then the throw-in is from a spot on the endline.

Maybe I'm missing why there is confusion on the play. . .?

tomegun · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 11:52am

The play is a T and there is no POI because there is no team control. Nothing fits when you look at the definition of POI and there isn't anything stated, that I can find, that says where you put the ball in play when there is no team control. Do you understand why some might say there is an advantage/disadvantage?

Jay R · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 12:51pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
The play is a T and there is no POI because there is no team control. Nothing fits when you look at the definition of POI and there isn't anything stated, that I can find, that says where you put the ball in play when there is no team control. Do you understand why some might say there is an advantage/disadvantage?

I disagree that there is no POI. Even though there is no team control, there is still a point of interruption. Had there been team control, where would you have inbounded the ball, endline right?. So the POI is still the same, the only difference is you go to the AP.

tomegun · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 01:09pm

Jay R, I'm game to listen to any viewpoint but if you read the definition of POI this doesn't fit. If you have a rule reference that addresses this type of play tell me. I don't care one way or another, I just want to know what the specific rule is.
By the way, the reason this was ever brought up was because BI was called when someone smacked the backboard in a HS game. Wrong.

ChuckElias · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 01:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
Jay R, I'm game to listen to any viewpoint but if you read the definition of POI this doesn't fit.

Interestingly, Tommy is right. 4-51 gives the procedure for using POI in the following circumstances:
1) awarding a throw-in after a T, when one team had control;
2) after a stoppage of play for a 2-10 correctable error;
3) awarding FTs after technical FTs; and
4) resuming play after events that were beyond the control of home administration.

Amazingly, there is no provision for resuming play after a T when there was no team control.

In that case, since we have to go to the arrow, and have an AP throw-in, I would argue that the general throw-in rules apply. The throw-in would be from the closest spot of the infraction, which would be a designated spot on the endline, NCAA 7-5-1.

Your situation is covered almost exactly in AR 13 (sit A) on page 116, except that it doesn't tell you where the throw-in spot is

Mark Dexter · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 01:55pm

I can't find where this is specifically addressed in the location rules (7-5), but it is covered in the POI definition 4-50.1.a.

"Throw-in nearest to where the ball was after any technical foul(s) to the team that was in control with no reset of the shot clock."

I'd interpret having the AP arrow to mean control in this situation.

tomegun · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I can't find where this is specifically addressed in the location rules (7-5), but it is covered in the POI definition 4-50.1.a.

"Throw-in nearest to where the ball was after any technical foul(s) to the team that was in control with no reset of the shot clock."

I'd interpret having the AP arrow to mean control in this situation.

Huh? There is no team control. OK, I want to throw this out there for debate. Does anyone think putting the ball in play could be an advantage or disadvantage if you go with the nearest spot?

Chuck, your explaination makes the most sense to me. Treating it as you would a jump ball without the jump ball. I like that reasoning.

ChuckElias · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 22, 2004, 02:14pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by tomegun

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Does anyone think putting the ball in play could be an advantage or disadvantage if you go with the nearest spot?

I don't think adv/disad is relevant here. You put the ball in play where it's supposed to be by rule. It'd be a better advantage for the Team B to put the ball in play under its own basket, instead of under Team A's basket. But they don't get to choose. The advantage there is irrelevant. Nearest spot.