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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 02:52pm
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I have seen, in a number of contexts, statements to the effect of: You can't make an official do what s/he doesn't want to do. Setting aside for a minute that you *can* make officials do things that they don't want to do (e.g., pay taxes), I want to pose a serious question in the context of the gender equity lawsuits in Michigan and other places: Is it right that officials should be able to choose to work only boys basketball or only girls basketball? Why shouldn't *that* choice be prohibited as unlawful discrimination on the basis of sex?
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 03:08pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by bgtg19
I have seen, in a number of contexts, statements to the effect of: You can't make an official do what s/he doesn't want to do. Setting aside for a minute that you *can* make officials do things that they don't want to do (e.g., pay taxes), I want to pose a serious question in the context of the gender equity lawsuits in Michigan and other places: Is it right that officials should be able to choose to work only boys basketball or only girls basketball? Why shouldn't *that* choice be prohibited as unlawful discrimination on the basis of sex?
It's not always illegal to discriminate based on gender. But it's illegal to receive federal money if you discriminate. There are also hiring and firing issues that don't involve federal money, but the point is I can discriminate in how I spend my time. Now if an association discriminated, in how they assigned games, either based on the gender of the ref or the gender of the players, that might be illegal. But an individual can choose not to do girls' games or not to do boys' games if she wants. In that case, it's only herself she's hurting.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 03:08pm
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I see nothing wrong with an official choosing what games or levels they choose to work. As far as I can see there is nothing that would compel me to either.

That being said. I know there are associations that will say you need to work assigned ball games and that you may get both. In these you can refuse to work one or the other you just may not have as many...

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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 03:11pm
Jerry Blum
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Why would you consider it to be discrimination? I have known of male officials that have chosen to only officiate girls games.

My thinking is that this isn't discrimination because it is the choice of the official and it isn't putting the girls playing the game at any kind of a disadvantage because that official isn't doing the game.

Just my feeling on it.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 03:12pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by bgtg19
I have seen, in a number of contexts, statements to the effect of: You can't make an official do what s/he doesn't want to do. Setting aside for a minute that you *can* make officials do things that they don't want to do (e.g., pay taxes), I want to pose a serious question in the context of the gender equity lawsuits in Michigan and other places: Is it right that officials should be able to choose to work only boys basketball or only girls basketball? Why shouldn't *that* choice be prohibited as unlawful discrimination on the basis of sex?
Don't know how it works in your area, but in ours all HS games (boys & girls) are assigned by the same person. There are over 300 officials in our association, and we all work a mix. I can't speak for others, but personally I have no preference.

With regard to being able to choose to work only boys or girls games, with rare exceptions, officials are independent contractors. As such, they are free to choose to accept or decline any assignment. No one can force you to work for someone you don't want to work for.

Conversely, assigners can (and most probably will) take this into account when assigning games - turn too many back without a good reason & it might affect your future assignments.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 03:15pm
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Michigan Officials have independent contractor status.
They contract their own games and are not obliged to take or refuse either gender, except as Kelvin showed, an official wants to oblige an assignor or an association.

mick
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 03:18pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by TimTaylor
Don't know how it works in your area, but in ours all HS games (boys & girls) are assigned by the same person. There are over 300 officials in our association, and we all work a mix. I can't speak for others, but personally I have no preference.
Tim -- there are quite a few that don't work a mix. There are several men who refuse to do girls' games. And several women who never get any boys' games. The theory of getting a mix, is a great theory, that doesn't always pan out. I'm not judging, just describing.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 03:38pm
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A case can be made by an official charging they were discriminated against if they were denied assignments because of their gender.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 03:39pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by rainmaker

Tim -- there are quite a few that don't work a mix. There are several men who refuse to do girls' games. And several women who never get any boys' games. The theory of getting a mix, is a great theory, that doesn't always pan out. I'm not judging, just describing. [/B]
Juulie,

Interesting.........my ratio of assigned games so far this season is exactly 50/50. I knew there are several that for one reason or another don't like working the girls games, but didn't know of any that outright refused.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 04:10pm
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Lightbulb Not sure the law can do anything about this.

I work only Boy's basketball. I personally choose not to work girlÂ’s basketball because I do not like it. Also working both Girl's and basketball games would make me work much more than I am willing to work. Boy's games in our area are usually held on Tuesday, Friday and Saturday. If I worked Girl's basketball I would have to work many games on Mondays, Wednesdays and Thursdays which would be much more days that I would desire. I also work 3 sports and I need the off days to do more work to make up for my taking off. I even do not make myself available for Girl's playoffs (which start first) through the state. Not sure how you could make me or anyone that has the other things going on work both. Or for those officials that work college ball, they might work college ball on their off nights or nights when other high school games going on. We are independent contractors and no one can make you do something as a hobby. Just like anyone that is an independent contractor, no one can make them take a job they would rather not do. Many contractors have some specialization or certain type of jobs they can do and others they are not as good at. Officiating is not at all different. You cannot make those do what they are not willing to do or comfortable with.

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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 04:14pm
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In NH we currently have two seperate boards a womens and a mens--you can be on both or either one--seperate tests etc. This will change next year as we go to one Board only. I enjoy doing either myself so it will not be an issue for me, however i do know both some men and women officials who will only do either mens or womens games.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 04:16pm
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I my part of Michigan, I suspect the high school leagues now will require officials to work both boys and girls basketball. Of course, exceptions will be made for the "superstar" officials.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 04:21pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally posted by stan-MI
I my part of Michigan, I suspect the high school leagues now will require officials to work both boys and girls basketball. Of course, exceptions will be made for the "superstar" officials.
How can they require officials to do what they would not want to do?

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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 04:24pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge


How can they require officials to do what they would not want to do?

Peace
The leagues will dictate, "if you want to work 10 boys games, you also must work 10 girls games." A take it or leave it package. Your choice will be to work both or none.
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Old Wed Dec 08, 2004, 04:38pm
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Re: Not sure the law can do anything about this.

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
You cannot make those do what they are not willing to do or comfortable with.
Isn't this what the civil rights laws are designed, in part, to address? An owner who ran a small diner in the South in the 1950s may not have been either willing or comfortable serving non-Whites, but they were made to do so. Clearly, civil rights laws have infringed on individual, not just governmental, "rights." Over time, I think the "laws" have helped to bring about a changed -- albeit far from perfect -- attitude. You say that you don't "like" girls basketball? Perhaps that attitude might change, over time....
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