Ron Artest

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by mick

I don't think that year suspension will fly.
at least I hop it doesn't.
Seems like cruel and unusual punishment to me.
mick

They can let him back in when his album is done.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by Rad
Somebody must have board editing powers... I point out what an idiot Rutledge is, and my posts disappear after a while!

It's an insult to idiots everywhere to say that.

Z

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Rad
Somebody must have board editing powers... I point out what an idiot Rutledge is, and my posts disappear after a while!

If I am an idiot, you have to be the biggest buffoon I know if you did not know that.

Did you get your GED yet?

Peace

[canuckrefguy]

"Anytime a fan touches you, you have the right to beat the hell out of them. I'm a man, and I'm not gonna let anybody disrespect me."

Good to see Charles Barkley hasn't changed a bit

[BigGref]

The numbers I put out earlier were I guess a little low. Artests was I think somewhat excessive, but he definitly deserved the steepest suspension; maybe 30. I think his recent past of good behavior over the last 2 years should have been taken into account. It's sad all the good he has done recently was thrown away for 3 or 4 punches on beligerent fans. Jackson and everyone else on the Pacers and Detroit got I think fair suspensions; except for Jermaine. I have looked feveriously at the tapes and still see his only strike being on the floor against a fan that still had potential to cause grievous bodily harm. Yeah he hit him when he was tring to get up, when you need to nutreulize someone that is the best time. I see him bear hug, or try to move someone, while he is still on the court, maybe to get to a teammate, maybe to help clear the way for the people who need to get to the injured old lady (not a strike). and the only other time I see a number 7 is when he advances a couple steps toward the side of the rope line, not really touching anyone, moments before getting loads of things thrown at him. So I still stand by my previous 5-10 games for O'neal; the number he was given is just not adding up (especially with very little, if any, Hx of violence).

[BigGref]

I just got done looking at the Pacers and the Pistons web sites. If you do this, you will know where I am going. THe Pacers site has about 5 or 6 pieces about the incident. THe detroit site (homepage), zero!! The true losers are the fans of the NBA and especially those of Indiana. Detroit's web site is almost smug in not even having one little thing about potentially the worst ever sports brawl, that happened at there arena; Detroit as a city and the Piston's Organization have gotten the best deal (Their main competitor pretty much out of it). How can this be! The city, John Green have basically given any crazy fan the green light to helping out his team by trying to incite a riot.

I just hope that we as officials can do something to help curb this and the seeming decline of Sportsmanship in all sports by "nipping these things in the but!" thank you andy griffith show.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

Actually, it was kinda sad, Mike. No player ejections, either, I think.


I saw the film on this one. Just out-and-out kicked the player in the head when he was down.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by rwest
Suppose a similar incident happened at our place of employment. Suppose someone threw a beer in my face and then I mistakenly attacked the wrong person. What would happen? I would probably be arrested and fired.

Why do people keep comparing apples and oranges? This is not your job we are talking about. This is not my job we are talking about. I do not know of any job other than a sporting event where you can be insulted in every way imaged and no one would be dragged out by the police. Better yet, do you know any jobs outside of a bar drink beer excessively? I know in an office job, you would not be dealing with individuals that can drink and call you all kind of names and that is accepted.

Originally posted by rwest
JR, you say you don't care that the wrong fan was attacked. I do! That fan did nothing to deserve being hit.

Did I say he did? Stop putting your own narrow minded point of view on what I am saying. Artest has already been punished and could face charges. He will get what is coming to him, but the fan started the chaos.

Originally posted by rwest
I don't condone what the fans did. It was a disgrace and criminal. Charges should be as severe as the law allows. However, our society has gotten more violent. In our culture today, if someone disrespects you, people take that as a right to fight. When I was growing up, I was taught to walk away from a conflict before it broke nto a fight. Don't get me wrong. I believe you have a right to defend yourself. But Artest should never have gone up into the stands.

This is not about being disrespected. This is about having something thrown at you and being hit in the face, which is assault by the way. I think I would not expect anyone to just take being assaulted lying down (no pun intended). This was not the first time and it will not be the last time a fight will happen at a sporting event. The other incidents that happen in the past were fans putting themselves into the mix with players. I agree that Artest crossed a line, but it was not like he just went up into the stands without provocation.

Originally posted by rwest
JR, just because someone says something to you that you don't like, does not give you the license to beat the snot out of him. Nor does being hit by a cup of beer. The reponse must be proportional. Beer in the face = Fists in the face. I don't think so. Artest went way overboard.

This is not about what fits the action, this is about what other action do you expect. If I throw something like a beer in anyone's face, I do not expect they are going to walk away. Maybe that is the reason I have never thrown a liquid at anyone. It does not matter if their behavior is right or wrong, I just know not to go there. I know that action will bring either violence to me or someone around me. I also know that if I say certain things to people, I might have to defend myself as well. I have never said that Artest did not cross a line, but the fan crossed one as well. I at least understand the actions of Artest. I have no idea why anyone would throw something sitting in the stands.

Originally posted by rwest
Just my opinion.

This is not just about an opinion, this is about reality. We might want people to behave in a certain way, but I know not to do things that will provoke a fight. I cannot say and do anything to someone at expect they are just going to sit there and do nothing. If that is what you expect, tell me how it goes the time you throw a beer in someone's face. Call me from the hospital or jail when that happens.

Peace

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Wouda, couda, shouda, but didnÂ’t.

I agree that Artest should not have approached the fan in any way. But I understand why he did and think many others would do the same. When you throw something at anyone, be prepared for their reaction. When Artest went into the stands, he should be prepared for the reaction as well. I really have no problem with what his teammates did at all, because they were getting their teammate of a bad situation. They had every right to hit whoever was attacking them. The fans when they came onto the floor should have been prepared for the reaction the received as well.

Players should not have their space violated. Whether it is a thrown object or the presence of people threatening them directly, the players have a right to work in a place that they do not have to put up with that kind of behavior. If you really want to talk about morals and professionalism, let us address the use of alcohol at sporting events. Let us address how if that kind of behavior was in any other segment of society, they people would not be allowed to participate in the event.

Like I have always said here, you can be right and wrong at the same time. Maybe Artest will loose some games and so will his teammates. Yes the fans did not deserve being attacked. But just because you do something, does not mean someone will not react to you. In many circles the action of this fan would have brought much more than a couple of punches to his face. I blame them first because they were the spark that started the fire. And individuals that had nothing to do with the altercation continued their despicable behavior. There where children around and in the area. None of these adults took any account of that.

Peace

I agree that those fans need a good --- whippen! However, just as I can't charge after someone who cuts me off in traffic, he can't go into the stands. I gotta believe that if he would have given security a chance, they would have handled the perpetraitor. I hope they invent a punishment for him. Something good so that every other fan will reconsider before they throw debris. Artest and the others got what they deserve, now lets see the fans get theirs.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by ChrisSportsFan
I agree that those fans need a good --- whippen! However, just as I can't charge after someone who cuts me off in traffic, he can't go into the stands. I gotta believe that if he would have given security a chance, they would have handled the perpetraitor. I hope they invent a punishment for him. Something good so that every other fan will reconsider before they throw debris. Artest and the others got what they deserve, now lets see the fans get theirs.

Cutting someone off in traffic is not the same as going after someone that threw something in your direction and it hits you in the face.

But I know that if I give someone the middle finger after getting cut off, they might react in a way that could be violent. That is why I do not do those kind of things. You do not know the person you are dealing with and their morals.

Peace

[Sal Giaco]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I agree that Artest crossed a line, but it was not like he just went up into the stands without provocation.

JR - I think we understand why Artest did what he did but the bottom line is.... Provoked or unprovoked, a player can NOT go into the stands and hit the fans - NOT for any reason PERIOD!

We know that what that fan did can be considered assault and what he did was idiotic, moranic and probably a crime - but as a player, coach or official in the NBA, you CAN'T cross that line (go into the stands) and take matters into your own hands.

Agree??? Now lets end this neverending discussion because we are all starting to repeat ourselves.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
Just some random thoughts on the fight:

- The foul was cheap because the Pacers were up 15 with 0:45 to go in the game, not because it was from behind or because there was no play on the ball. This violates an unwritten NBA law that says you do not maim your fellow millionaires during the regular season if the game is out of reach.

- Ron Artest is paid several million a year to not go into the stands. The NBA has an obligation to train new players about this, not just on how to get out of paternity suits.

- Artest pretty much went after the first guy he saw laughing at him, not anyone that threw anything at him.

- Artest didn't fight the 6'9 230 guy that pushed him and threw a towel at him, but went after the 5'9' 165 guy that was laughing at him. What does this say about him?

- Detroit Piston security should have gotten into better position before Artest went into the stands.

- This is not unique, it is similar to old-time baseball games, where players frequently went into the stands after fans. The game will survive.

- It is unfortunate that in our society, it is considered manly to respond to disrespect with violence. In the Ravenswood Project where Ron Artest grew up, this may have been a necessary survival skill. But he's not in the projects anymore, and his livelihood depends on him realizing this.

- For a people that frequently refer to ourselves as Christian, it is amazing how few of us ever turn the other cheek, or even consider this before lashing out.

- Be prepared for the idiot fans in the next few weeks to be baiting players in the games you work.

VERY WELL PUT

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Sal Giaco
JR - I think we understand why Artest did what he did but the bottom line is.... Provoked or unprovoked, a player can NOT go into the stands and hit the fans - NOT for any reason PERIOD!

Now when did I say they could? Please show me one line that I said it was completely justified in his behavior? All I have said is that this situation is like Murphy's Law. If you do something violent (throwing an object at someone) you should expect a similar and opposite reaction directed back at you. If players feel threatened, they will and have reacted.

Originally posted by Sal Giaco
We know that what that fan did can be considered assault and what he did was idiotic, moranic and probably a crime - but as a player, coach or official in the NBA, you CAN'T cross that line (go into the stands) and take matters into your own hands.

Well guess what, they did. And many other players said they might do the same thing. And the NBA might lose this battle and find out that they are responsible from a liability standpoint if they do not protect players from unruly fans. You can say what they cannot do, but they did. And if a fan throws something at someone, I would not be surprised it might just happen again. Maybe not to the extent of Artest, but some action might be taken. Let us not forget there was an individual that threw a chair and it was not an NBA player. There is a lot of blame to go around. That is all I am saying in the first place.

Everybody wants to talk about what the players should do, but I have not heard anyone tell me of a job where fans can throw things at you or say things to you and that seems to be OK.

Originally posted by Sal Giaco
Agree??? Now lets end this neverending discussion because we are all starting to repeat ourselves.

True dat!!

Peace

[ChrisSportsFan]

TO CONTINUE BEATING A DEAD HORSE:

The Players Union is garbage. They sit back and collect their dues and really offer minimal guidance to the players. Then when issues come up, they cry foul. Why don't they get off their hands and provide some security specifically around the benches.

I agree with the other posts that the alcahol abuse is a problem. Without it and it's profits, players would not get these huge contracts as I just don't see fans drinking 6-10 sodas at the game. Now, because they have to cut the contracts down, here comes the Players Union again.

In addition to fines and jail time, the fans who were involved need to have some sort of No Tresspassing Laws invoked on them which would keep them away from ALL amature and professional sporting events.

Comments on Artest;
don't know about the rest of you on this board, but +$5 mil sounds like alot of money, if I had to make a decision, I'd choose to keep my cool and not jepordize it.

There are things we all know we could do at home, work, out in public or on the court which could insite conflict. For example, we have many occasions to show up a player or coach but we choose to take the high road. We take the high road because we love this game, we take the high road because we don't want any trouble, we take the high road because we still want to be paid our $ for that game, we take the high road because we know it's the right thing to do. If a player expects to be paid the big bucks and expects people to buy his jerseys and expects people to cheer for his hustle, expects to use his notoriaty he has earned from this sport, then he has to make smarter decisions.

That's all I've got to say about that.
(for now)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JRutledge

[/B]

This is about having something thrown at you and being hit in the face, which is assault by the way.
[/B][/QUOTE]It's not assault in Michigan. It's "battery", which is a misdemeanour.

http://www.detnews.com/2004/pistons/.../d07-13505.htm