Ron Artest

[WindyCityBlue]

From Jimgolf
Just some random thoughts on the fight:

- Ron Artest is paid several million a year to not go into the stands. The NBA has an obligation to train new players about this, not just on how to get out of paternity suits.
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Ron Artest is paid millions of dollare to PLAY BASKETBALL in the NBA. His upbringing precluded what most of us enjoyed. My parents taught me restraint and to leave my emotions on the field/court.

We applaud when some numb-nuts runs onto the football field and a linebacker flattens him. "He should have known better.", "What the hell was he doing messing around on the field?" or "What did he expect, did you see the size of the guy who hit him?"

We have all been involved in heat of the moment actions. Coaches/Players say things that they would never do otherwise. Change the action to your workplace. A couple of guys are pushing and shoving. You run up and toss a beer on one of them. What's the next scene?

I may be just a dumb baseball umpire, but I know that if I throw a beer in the face of a 6'8", 240# Neanderthal, I better have a clear shot at the exit. Yes, Artest is a goon. But you can't expect him to stand there (after scrapping for the entire game) and say, "Security, please escort that getleman from the premises. He is displaying very unsocial behavior."

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You don't tug on Superman's cape, you don't spit into the wind, you don't pull the mask off the ol' Lone Ranger and you don't mess around with Slim.
- Jim Croce

[WindyCityBlue]

FYI,

The doofus who threw the beer that started the whole mess, is missing. The police identified him and asked him to come in for a little "rubber hose" chat. Lo and behold he is no where to be found. You think Johnny Cochran is in Detroit?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue

I may be just a dumb baseball umpire,

I think you'll get very little disagreement here.

but I know that if I throw a beer in the face of a 6'8", 240# Neanderthal, I better have a clear shot at the exit. Yes, Artest is a goon. But you can't expect him to stand there (after scrapping for the entire game) and say, "Security, please escort that getleman from the premises. He is displaying very unsocial behavior."

Maybe you can't expect that reaction but you're just a (self-admitted) dumb and completely powerless baseball umpire.

David Stern, OTOH, runs the show & I think it might even be clear to you exactly what he expects the proper reaction to be.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
FYI,

The doofus who threw the beer that started the whole mess, is missing. The police identified him and asked him to come in for a little "rubber hose" chat. Lo and behold he is no where to be found. You think Johnny Cochran is in Detroit?

Do you get a kick out of being so wrong so often?

http://www.clickondetroit.com/sports...54/detail.html

[johnSandlin]

As much as I do not like Ron Artest because of the way he has behaved over the past few weeks and years in the NBA, I do think Jackson should have gotten the stiffer suspension for his actions.

I am not a Pacers fan at all, even more I am Pistons fan all the way though. As much as I like Ben Wallace, he probably should have been suspended for more then six games because his shuff got the real stuff going.

However, though Artest should have just let Wallace scored and not fouled him though. Needless, I am glad I was not in Commissioner Stearns's position with having to sort this whole mess out.

I do think Artest's suspension was because of his league history that he has with the NBA unfortunately. As much as the Indiana fans, player's union reps, and Artest fans want to complain about the length of the suspension, it is nt a surprise because of Artest's history recently in the NBA.

I am in NO WAY defending the Pistons staff asnd players who were involved in this mess, because they are responsible as well for their actions. I am just sorry to see that NBA has to go through this situation right now.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

I think you'll get very little disagreement here.

Well, I disagree. He's a dumb troll.

Yo, Gary Spevak. Go away. You know- just like UMPS said to you after you embarrased them so badly. Go far away. Try the General Forum again. Go call Rut a few more names. Do what you do best- but go away to do it. If you don't, I'll tell Rocky.

[stan-MI]

I haven't read all of the prior posts (there's just too much), so forgive me if I repeat, but:

1. Artest didn't go after the guy who threw the cup at him; he went after someone who was taunting him, not knowing who threw the cup. He slugged the wrong guy.

2. The police already have identified the guy who threw the cup.

3. There weren't "hundreds" of wild fans in the melee; if you look, the stands were almost empty because the game had been decided. There were only about 4 or 5 fans involved.

4. Look at the tape and ask yourself, honestly, if the two idiots who went on the court truly presented a threat to Artest or O'Neal. These guys got coldcocked by the players just for opening their mouths. They never raised their hands or did anything other than be *******s who put themselves at risk so they could get on TV.

5. Had Artest not gone into the stands, Ben Wallace's retaliatory shove probably would have earned him a 1- or 2-game suspension, and Artest would have gotten nothing. Artest's initial foul wasn't that bad, and Nunez and Carlisle had calmed the on-court situation. Artest started the real trouble because he couldn't turn the other cheek when hit by a paper cup.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, I disagree. He's a dumb troll.

Yo, Gary Spevak. Go away. You know- just like UMPS said to you after you embarrased them so badly. Go far away. Try the General Forum again. Go call Rut a few more names. Do what you do best- but go away to do it. If you don't, I'll tell Rocky.

Oh, I'm all over it JR...the goon squad has been sent out...

[rwest]

Many people have to a cetain degree responsibility for what happended, however, most of the blame lies on Artest. I'm not condoning what Wallace did or the fans. They all should be punished, and Wallace is getting a more serious penalty than I believe he deserves. The fan who threw the beer should be barred from the arena for a year at least. Any fan who threw a punch that was not in defense of himself should be arrested for assault. The guy who threw the chair should be arrested as well. But the foul and the push by Wallace and what happened in the stands are separate issues as far as I'm concerned.

The situation had calmed itself when an irresponsible fan threw a cup of beer on Artest. If Artest had not gone into the stands nothing else whould have happened, except the removal of the fan. Wallace was going to be ejected anyways. It would have all ended there had not two things have happended. One the fan throwing the beer and Artest over-reacting. Yes, over-reacting.

Some have said that Artest has the right to defend himself. From what? A cup of beer? No way can there be a self-defense justification for what Artest did. No way! All Artest had to do is remove himself from the area. Why was he on the table in the first place? In order to claim self-defense, you have to believe your life is in danger. Artest put himself in danger when he went into the stands. Another eliminate to self-defense is proportional response. You can't convince me that pummeling a fan is equal to a beer in the chest.

As soon as I saw it, I thought Artest should have been suspended for the remainder of the year. I also thought Jackson should have received the same penalty. He also went into the stands.

I also disagree with the foul be a no-nothing foul. Maybe I need to see it again, but what I remember is a hard shove from behind by Artest. Wallace was frustrated and the game was over. That does not excuse the push by Wallace. I believe it was far worse than the foul by Artest. However, Pacers up by 15 with 45 seconds left. There is no way Artest should have pushed Wallace that hard from behind. The game was over! Have I seen worse? Yes! But I've also seen fights from similar fouls before. A no-nothing foul. I don't think so.

Just my opinion.

[WindyCityBlue]

It's just sad that men with so much control over a sport can have such little control over their written abilities.

dan...Artest is a goon. Artest should have been suspended for the season. But, the numb-nuts that threw the beer and the idiot who challenged him on the floor should have to go to jail and be forced to watch Bulls games the whole time.
The baseball comment was called self deprecating humor.

Much like your posts on the baseball site, "stick to what you know" is advice worth revisiting. I offred no opinion of the officiating during that game. As a fan though, I can certainly offer the same insight as the pundits on any sports program. Check out ESPN, more than a couple of "experts" share the same thoughts.

Jurassic - Do we need to go back and find the posts that had you saying that name calling and put downs were the sign of a weak mind? It seems that your glass house has developed a few cracks.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rockyroad
[/B]

Oh, I'm all over it JR...the goon squad has been sent out... [/B][/QUOTE]Maybe you shoulda sent the goof squad instead, Rock. Mighta been more appropriate.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue

Jurassic - Do we need to go back and find the posts that had you saying that name calling and put downs were the sign of a weak mind? It seems that your glass house has developed a few cracks.

Gary, Gary, Gary.....

You got voted off the island.

Now go away. Scat! Shoo, shoo!

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

You may change your mind after seeing this clip. It's got a good shot of O'Neal OFF OF THE FLOOR fighting.

Click the link, and then click on "Sports Center breaks down the brawl" on the left-hand side.

I did...and I haven't changed my mind...in fact, I still no idea as to what you're talking about because in the video mentioned above (and every other one I've seen), O'Neal is ON THE FLOOR. If you want to cite the time it took for him to leave the floor and get to the locker room as being OFF THE FLOOR, then you're right...there was a time he was OFF THE FLOOR...but he wasn't hitting anybody at that point. There were probably 6 people around him trying to carry him out.

Not only that but when he blindisded the fan on the court, he was NOT DEFENDING HIMSELF. He races across the floor and blindsided the guy. The guy was no way near him and not threatening to him.

You're right...those two thugs had just tried to tackle his friend and teammate, Artest. He decided to take action against 2 guys coming on the court for nothing but trouble and help his friend out. Hmm...I wonder what you would do if someone was being attacked on your team. I wonder what you would do if you were working a 3-person crew, things got hectic, and one of your crew members was attacked. If you aren't going to come to the rescue and try to help, I think you're crew members ought to know...because they may not want to work with you anymore.

And yes, he was in the stands!...

Again, I've seen the tape at least 8 times now and O'Neal is nowhere to be found in the stands. I have 15+ minutes of footage and the only place where O'Neal can even be mistaken for being in the crowd is , again, when he is being shoved to the lockerroom.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by WindyCityBlue
It's just sad that men with so much control over a sport can have such little control over their written abilities.

You have a working relationship with Stern? I can't imagine how else you would be in a position to critique his writing ability. Nor why it's worth mentioning at all.

dan...Artest is a goon. Artest should have been suspended for the season. But, the numb-nuts that threw the beer and the idiot who challenged him on the floor should have to go to jail and be forced to watch Bulls games the whole time.

Seems simple minded to assume they will not be criminally charged.

The baseball comment was called self deprecating humor.

I imagine you have ample opportunity to degrade yourself.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Indy_Ref
[B]Originally posted by BktBallRef

I did...and I haven't changed my mind...in fact, I still no idea as to what you're talking about because in the video mentioned above (and every other one I've seen), O'Neal is ON THE FLOOR.

Again, I've seen the tape at least 8 times now and O'Neal is nowhere to be found in the stands. I have 15+ minutes of footage and the only place where O'Neal can even be mistaken for being in the crowd is , again, when he is being shoved to the lockerroom.

Hmmmmm, I just checked the tape again that I linked above. It clearly shows O'Neal off the court, fighting, about half-way through it.