10 second backcourt count

[brianp134]

Z

How many times have officials been swinging their arms and and forgot what they have as a count. I have done it and I am sure others have as well. The trail gets focused on the press and forgets his or her count.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
If (1) nothing unusual happened during the throw-in and (2) the shot clock started properly, then (3) a violation has occured by the time the shot clock shows 23 seconds.

That's a fact. There can be no debate about that.

This is not about clock-watching, about hurt feelings or credibility. This is a basic question about whether or not we enforce a violation that our partner missed when it's obvious that s/he missed it. And keep in mind that this isn't a "spirit of the rule" kind of question. It is the intent of the rule for someone to blow the whistle after 10 seconds of team control in the backcourt.

This is exactly the same as if A1 jumped up and down with the ball and your partner didn't call it. He was watching off the ball at just that instant and didn't see it. Do you call the travel? Exactly the same.

The question is, if you as the C notice this, do you whistle it or do you ignore the violation?

I vote for whistle it.

Hmmmmm. You use the shot clock in high school ball there, don't you, Chuck? After reading NFHS casebook play 5.10.1SitC, would you change your mind?

Team A leads by one point when they inbound the ball in their backcourt with 12 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1's throw-in pass is to A2 who dribbles in the backcourt until the horn sounds. The trail official does not make a 10-second call because he/she lost the count.
RULING: The game is over. The clock may not be re-set as there are no rules provisions to do this. If the count was not accurate or was not made, it cannot be corrected. There is no provision for the correction of an error made in the official's accuracy in counting seconds.

[TGR]

I believe that this is an item that needs to be discussed in the pregame conference. As a crew, we need to agree how we will address this issue. First, if you notice that the clock operator is not handling the clock correctly, you need to address that early. Second, as the T, when you are moving up court, you should also try to see the shot clock. If you notice a discrepancy, stop play immediately and address it. If you wait until the shot clock gets to 23 and still have not called anything, you are putting yourself and your crew in a bad situation. Finally, as a crew, we will need to decide if we want the C to come in and call the 10 second violation. That is considered a secondary responsibility of the C. Overall, I believe that the crew needs to discuss this in the pregame so the coaches, players, and spectators see that we are all on the same page.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Hmmmmm. You use the shot clock in high school ball there, don't you, Chuck? After reading NFHS casebook play 5.10.1SitC, would you change your mind?

Change my mind about what, JR? About the intent of the rule? Or about whether I'd step in and call it?

In either case, the answer is no, I guess. But I don't think my position conflicts with the case play. If neither official is aware enough to call the violation, then obviously it doesn't get penalized. But the intent of the rule is equally obvious: penalize it when it's observed.

Did I answer your question, or miss your point?