Camp Case Play, What Would You Call?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
[/B]

WARNING: The following post is specific to this senario. Don't read too much into it.

[/B][/QUOTE]Nevada, I dont want to be pedantic (cynical is OK), but you might like to start passing your time by learning how to spell properly. The word that you intended to use for this thread is "scenario", not "senario".
Here is the proper spelling:

Main Entry- SCENARIO
- pronunciation- "sce-nar-i-o"
- meaning- "an ouline of the plot of a dramatic or literary work".

Happy to be of assistance.

[Adam]

Originally posted by cloverdale
my first instinct was to call it a violation but would waited to see who touched it first...in this case A2. Now a DIFFERENT situation...we can agree that if A1 is in the FC and passes the ball to A2 who takes the pass in the air from the BC and lands in the FC that this would be a BC violation...now for the twist. What would the call be, on the previous play, if the ball bounced back in the FC before A2 touched it? Would FC status be reestablished?

Since FC had already been established, and was followed by the ball establishing BC status, it is a violation for anyone on team A to be the first to touch it. Even if the ball rolls all the way to A's basket.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

WARNING: The following post is specific to this senario. Don't read too much into it.

[/B]

Nevada, I dont want to be pedantic (cynical is OK), but you might like to start passing your time by learning how to spell properly. The word that you intended to use for this thread is "scenario", not "senario".
Here is the proper spelling:

Main Entry- SCENARIO
- pronunciation- "sce-nar-i-o"
- meaning- "an ouline of the plot of a dramatic or literary work".

Happy to be of assistance. [/B][/QUOTE]


"For 'tis the sport to have the engineer
Hoist with his own petard: and 't shall go hard
But I will delve one yard below their mines,
And blow them at the moon: O, 'tis most sweet,
When in one line two crafts directly meet."

From Hamlet by W. Shakespeare

[Camron Rust]

Filling in the chart...

Expanding it to all possible combinations (some should be obvious to all, some may not be):

Player A1 Location	Player A2 Location	Ball Bounce Location	Backcourt violation???
Frontcourt	Frontcourt	Frontcourt	No
		Backcourt	Yes
	Backcourt	Frontcourt	Yes
		Backcourt	Yes
Backcourt	Frontcourt	Frontcourt	No
		Backcourt	No
	Backcourt	Frontcourt	Yes
		Backcourt	No

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Filling in the chart...

Expanding it to all possible combinations (some should be obvious to all, some may not be):

Camron, great chart. Just trying to understand how it is a BC violation if both players are in the backcourt and the ball bounces in the frontcourt. Isn't it true that front court has not been established yet since the ball has not been touched by any player on team A LOCATED IN THE FRONTCOURT? I profess that I don't know everything.........

[Lotto]

Originally posted by TravelinMan
Camron, great chart. Just trying to understand how it is a BC violation if both players are in the backcourt and the ball bounces in the frontcourt. Isn't it true that front court has not been established yet since the ball has not been touched by any player on team A LOCATED IN THE FRONTCOURT? I profess that I don't know everything.........

The ball attains front court status when it touches the frontcourt. You don't need a player in the frontcourt to touch the ball.

Look up the definition of front court/back court in rule 4, and the wording of the violation in rule 9.

[ref18]

[Edited by ref18 on Jul 28th, 2004 at 09:48 PM]

[Lotto]

Originally posted by ref18

You're right, that isn't a backcourt violation, because front court control has not been established.

You don't need player control in the front court. You only need team control plus the ball having front court status.

[ref18]

Originally posted by Lotto

You don't need player control in the front court. You only need team control plus the ball having front court status.

Sorry about that, you are right,

Rule 9(9)2

A player shall not:
While in team control in its backourt, cause the ball to go from backcourt to frountcourt and return to backcourt, withouth the ball touching a player in the frontcourt, and be the first to touch it in the backcourt.

Maybe I should try to read the book before I post

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by TravelinMan


Camron, great chart. Just trying to understand how it is a BC violation if both players are in the backcourt and the ball bounces in the frontcourt. Isn't it true that front court has not been established yet since the ball has not been touched by any player on team A LOCATED IN THE FRONTCOURT? I profess that I don't know everything.........

The location of the ball that is not being held or dribbled is where ever it last touched the floor or player.


The critera for a backcourt violation are:
1. Team control
2. Ball has had front court status
3. Team A was the last to touch before it returned to the backcourt.
4. Team A is the first to touch the ball after it returned to the backcourt.

So, the ball gains FC status the moment it bounces in the FC. When A2 catches it in the backcourt. He causes it to be in the backcourt. A1 was the last to touch the ball before it returned to the backcourt (even though it briefly had FC status after A1 released the ball). A2 was the first to touch the ball after it returned to the backcourt.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Lotto

The ball attains front court status when it touches the frontcourt. You don't need a player in the frontcourt to touch the ball.

Look up the definition of front court/back court in rule 4, and the wording of the violation in rule 9.

Thanks for the explanation Lotto. Like I said I am not omniscient, especially when it come to backcourt violations. This is a tricky subject.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Snaqwells


Since FC had already been established, and was followed by the ball establishing BC status, it is a violation for anyone on team A to be the first to touch it. Even if the ball rolls all the way to A's basket.

Originally posted by Lotto

The ball attains front court status when it touches the frontcourt. You don't need a player in the frontcourt to touch the ball.

Okay, so which is it? Can't be both!

Editted to add: Should have finished reading before I posted this. Touching the floor confers status, so Snaq is wrong about the ball rolling to the basket. Right?

[Edited by rainmaker on Jul 28th, 2004 at 11:01 PM]

[cloverdale]

always thought that the ball and both feet must be over the division line before fc status is established, not just the ball...any comments would be welcomed...im reading from the previous posts that if just the ball is dribbled over the d/line and then dribbled back into the bc this constitutes a violation?

[Lotto]

Originally posted by cloverdale
always thought that the ball and both feet must be over the division line before fc status is established, not just the ball...any comments would be welcomed...im reading from the previous posts that if just the ball is dribbled over the d/line and then dribbled back into the bc this constitutes a violation?

This is only true for a player dribbling form the back court into the front court. In all other cases, the ball has front court status as soon as it touches something (or someone) who is in the front court.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Lotto
This is only true for a player dribbling form the back court into the front court. [/B]

Well, actually it is true for a player(s) advancing the ball from the backcourt to the frontcourt. A1 in backcourt passes to A2 with one foot in backcourt and one foot in frontcourt. A2 is still in backcourt until both feet and ball are in frontcourt. Agreed?