Tennessee-Baylor ending

[just another ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BktBallRef

...end of the 1st half. I'm lead, shot goes up and misses, A1 creams B1 from behind and tips the miss in just before the horn sounded. I came out strong, waved the basket off and called the foul. The foul was on the tip, before the horn, even though my whistle came simultaneously or just after the horn. That's the correct call. And I received many compliments on having the willingness to make the call.

See it and call it. When the whistle sounds is of NO consequence.

All quite right. Which brings this to mind. There seems to be as much or more focus on the .2 which was put back on the clock as on the foul call. If the call had been (NFHS)
foul before the buzzer, free throws with the lane clear, would that have been somehow easier to accept than the fact that "All this happened at .2!!" I guess that the bottom line for one side is still "They made a call at the end and we lost," no matter what the call was.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by just another ref
All quite right. Which brings this to mind. There seems to be as much or more focus on the .2 which was put back on the clock as on the foul call. If the call had been (NFHS)
foul before the buzzer, free throws with the lane clear, would that have been somehow easier to accept than the fact that "All this happened at .2!!"

And had the best NFHS refs in the country been doing that game, that's exactly what would have happened.

By NCAA rules, though, they did everything right. If coaches, players, fans, etc. don't like the replay rules, they should lobby to get TV monitor reviews taken out of the game altogether.

[aucella]

Your right most people don't see things the same way and making contraversial statements can bring heavy debate. Most of the debate was very positive. The only thing I wanted to bring out was would all of you have this made that call in that situation because if someone had wiped someone out with .02 seconds left I would have, but in my judgement this did not take place. In closing my final point you guys put me in my place and rightfully so I do plan to stick around this is just the kind of healthy debate I like(most of it) some got a little personal(a very small percentage).

[mick]

Originally posted by aucella
In closing my final point you guys put me in my place and rightfully so I do plan to stick around ....

Good call, aucella.
We learn the process when we share ideas.
mick

---

The reception of our perception may be the inception of a conception.

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by aucella
Anyone knows the rules but only the good ones know how to apply them. First unless you have an obvious foul which we did not in this case so you had to 2 players playing the ball and not all contact is a foul. You have to use your experence as an official to determine if a foul has occured.
If you want to decide a game of this magnitude on a very suspect call be my guest. You should only have the official who made the call look at the film because they know when they saw what they thought was a foul.

Aucella,

For what it's worth, I understand your point and agree with your assessment on whether this really was an infraction that needed to have a whistle. It was a loose ball that two players were vying for...and neither had true possession of it. The Tennessee player was certainly closer to the ball...and the Baylor player knocked it through her hands...and then contact was made. Personally, I'm no-calling it and we're going into OT.

[Edited by Indy_Ref on Apr 7th, 2004 at 10:36 AM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by mick
[/B]

The reception of our perception may be the inception of a conception.

[/B][/QUOTE]It may also cause a deception.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by aucella
Your right most people don't see things the same way and making contraversial statements can bring heavy debate. Most of the debate was very positive. The only thing I wanted to bring out was would all of you have this made that call in that situation because if someone had wiped someone out with .02 seconds left I would have, but in my judgement this did not take place. In closing my final point you guys put me in my place and rightfully so I do plan to stick around this is just the kind of healthy debate I like(most of it) some got a little personal(a very small percentage).

aucella, the issue is that the official could have no way of knowing how much time is on the clock. he's watching the play, not the clock. I've had many situations where I knew time was winding down and was expecting a buzzer. The wait can seems endless sometimes. A clock starting at 7 or 8 seconds can take what seems like forever to be played. You can't stop officiating just because you're waiting for the horn to sound.

There's simply no way he can know there's .2 left.

[wizard]

[i]Originally posted by BktBallRef [/B]

There's simply no way he can know there's .2 left. [/B][/QUOTE]

Tony,
Well said. I totally agree.
I've tried to count down as well, but that only helps to know that the buzzer is about to sound.

aucella, I too am glad you're staying. That's why I keep coming back. To learn from many different viewpoints.

[aucella]

that was my way of feeling everbody out and see what's what...... Knowledge of the rules + experience = hopefully the right calls

[mick]

Originally posted by aucella
that was my way of feeling everbody out and see what's what......

I don't understand.
Could you clarify?
mick

[dbpackfan]

I just don't really see how you can say the foul was on the Baylor player and not the Tennessee player.(or vice versa) The ball was between them and both were going for it. The Baylor player just seemed to be more aggressive. Neither one had any more claim to it than the other. That is the only problem I have with the call. Having said that, I didn't have to make that split second decision and I'm glad I didn't.

[Adam]

Because the Tennessee player had her spot on the floor, and the Baylor player knocked her out of it. Most people (from what I've seen) have agreed that this is a legitimate foul with 10 minutes left in the game; even with 10 seconds left. The debate seems to be that some officials say it absolutely should not have been called because of the time and situation.

Here's a question for those in the group I just mentioned. Should it have been called with 5 seconds left and Tennessee down by 2? Or .2 seconds with Tenn down by 2?

[aucella]

I belong to a live in the same room forum of refereees and a vast majority agree no foul in that situation and thats what i was refering to (some with vast NCAA and NBA experience)one of my mentors worked Larry Bird games ect....
Before anyone reads into that I am sure a lot of you out there have a lot of experience and are well respected in this game!!!!

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Aucella,
We admit to the human side, we take exception to your presumption that "most people" see it the same way you do. As for your whistle, don't worry, I'm sure the sporting goods store will take back a brand new whistle without much problem. You might even get your whole $2 back.

[Judge]

Just think if the call woul dhave gone agasint Summit? can you imagine her outburst, I promise she would have gone crazy, shje works refs the whole game, if this woul dhave happen to her team I can promise you she would not have said it would have been a call a 3mins or .02. A reporter asked her what she would have thought if it had been agaisnt her team and instead of answering the question she glared the reporter down. Glad sh e got her butt whipped in the final.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Judge
Just think if the call woul dhave gone agasint Summit? can you imagine her outburst, I promise she would have gone crazy, shje works refs the whole game, if this woul dhave happen to her team I can promise you she would not have said it would have been a call a 3mins or .02. A reporter asked her what she would have thought if it had been agaisnt her team and instead of answering the question she glared the reporter down. Glad sh e got her butt whipped in the final.

The coaches' opinions of this call couldn't be more irrelevant.