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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 10:03am
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Re: Re: Tough call.

Quote:
Originally posted by ronny mulkey


I've asked this before, but do the assignors in your area teach methods contrary to NFHS rules/interps/case book
rulings? If not, where do these "acceptable" practices come from? Are they different than those published by the FED? If you applied a casebook ruling would you not advance?

Or, are talking about judgement and "spirit of intent"?
Ronny,
It doesn't matter here.

Athletic directors assign games. I think game management is important. I do not know who tells them which officials to select.

I heard that this year the athletic directors selected a very good official for the state tourney with the only problem being that particular official hasn't worked in three years and he is living hadn't worked this year and is wintering in Arizona.

mick

(I got some new scoop. )


[Edited by mick on Feb 20th, 2004 at 12:07 PM]
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 10:16am
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I love to officiate, therefore I guess I would adapt but it just seems like a conflict of interest to let the schools or coaches do the selecting. Here, we have one guy that does the selecting and he very recently was a D1 official (think he still is) He is pro-official and he, at least, has an idea of what makes a good official. This is his second year and he made many changes.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 10:27am
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally posted by ronny mulkey
I love to officiate, therefore I guess I would adapt but it just seems like a conflict of interest to let the schools or coaches do the selecting. Here, we have one guy that does the selecting and he very recently was a D1 official (think he still is) He is pro-official and he, at least, has an idea of what makes a good official. This is his second year and he made many changes.
ronny,
To have an assignor of that caliber, or to have someone like JR, with his vast knowledge and experience, do the selecting, life must be good.
Attaboy!
mick
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 11:31am
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Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by ronny mulkey
I love to officiate, therefore I guess I would adapt but it just seems like a conflict of interest to let the schools or coaches do the selecting. Here, we have one guy that does the selecting and he very recently was a D1 official (think he still is) He is pro-official and he, at least, has an idea of what makes a good official. This is his second year and he made many changes.
ronny,
To have an assignor of that caliber, or to have someone like JR, with his vast knowledge and experience, do the selecting, life must be good.
Thanks for the kind words, Mick, even though I almost gagged on my cornflakes when I read them.

Now, to be serial( or cereal):I really think that to select officials properly, the person(s) selecting should definitely have officiating experience. He also shouldn't be swayed by any external issues, such as politics, etc. Unfortunately, from what I've heard, the ol' debbil "politics" can still be the determining factor in a lot of areas. I've had coaches ask me about having more input into the selection of officials. I usually ask them the same questions- i.e. "When you're coaching, are you watching the officials, or are you watching the play,players,etc.?"; "If you watch a game, do you concentrate on the officials, and not the game?"; "Did you read the mechanics manual so that you know when an official is where he is supposed to be, and not really out of position?"; "Did you pass the NFHS rules exam this year, and do you also keep current with the latest interpretations,etc.?".

When I read about states that assign games without any input at all from the officials, or without checking input if they do get some, well, you just have to wonder. Unfortunately, usually nothing gets done about it though. That's when you end up with guys going to regionals from their area, while better officials are staying home.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 01:47pm
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Re: Re: Tough call.

Quote:
Originally posted by ronny mulkey


I've asked this before, but do the assignors in your area teach methods contrary to NFHS rules/interps/case book
rulings? If not, where do these "acceptable" practices come from? Are they different than those published by the FED? If you applied a casebook ruling would you not advance?

Or, are talking about judgement and "spirit of intent"?
Well, that depends on what you feel is contrary to what the NF says. See we have kind of a close relationship with the NF. The editor left her job with the IHSA and went directly to the NF. So yes, there are rules that are taught to enforce closer than others, but that is the case in all sports at all levels. And if you are worried about one play in a casebook that might never happen, not sure any advancement is wrapped up in that one rule. But if you have no common sense and are always making unusual calls (multiple fouls), it can hurt you in the long run. Because our assignors can report to the state who they think deserves playoff consideration, but the state makes the final decisions based on many factors. But those "acceptable" practices have nothing to do with not applying the rules, but they are called philosophies. And if you are calling clean blocks, but contact on the body in my area, you might not be seen as a good official that uses good judgment. Especially if you are working that higher caliber of ball.

So the difference between me and you, seem to listen to the folks around me and what they want, because they are the ones that pay the bills or hire me. The NF does not.

Peace
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 02:08pm
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Ya but

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
The editor left her job with the IHSA and went directly to the NF.
Yabut, she stopped in Michigan before that.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 02:20pm
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Jeffrey,

I listen to the folks around me and most encourage NFHS principals and guidelines. I continue to ask, is that not the case in your area. More to the point, can you cite plays or rules that the people around you tell you not to call that is contrary to Fed rulings? And, I am not talking about judgement here - I am talking about an instance where some assignor told you to NEVER call 3 seconds, for example.
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 02:25pm
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Re: Ya but

Quote:
Originally posted by mick


Yabut, she stopped in Michigan before that.
What did she do exactly? Because if I am not mistaken, she was offered the job when she left here. She then took another position but and then went to the NF. I just know that she was not loved by many around here (I am talking only about the officiating body here). There was more relief when she left. But she did a lot of good things here and that feeling seems to be in the minority.

Peace
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 02:40pm
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Re: Re: Ya but

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by mick


Yabut, she stopped in Michigan before that.
What did she do exactly?
Weston -
Born in PA
moved to Wayne, MI (Detroit)
Played at Dayton, OH
MS Kent State
Worked a tourney in Michigan 70's
Taught Livonia, MI
U-Whitewater, WI
Central Mich U. Mt.Pleasant MI 31 years

(Source: Referee Mag - Feb 2004)
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 02:46pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ronny mulkey


Jeffrey,

I listen to the folks around me and most encourage NFHS principals and guidelines. I continue to ask, is that not the case in your area. More to the point, can you cite plays or rules that the people around you tell you not to call that is contrary to Fed rulings?
Ron, as usually you overblow the issue. Yes we are encouraged to use the NF guidelines. But the NF does not have a specific guideline for everything. The NF only gives rules, they often do not help interprete all their rules and their mechanics. Many states job is to fill in the blanks. And when they fill in the blanks, everyone across the country is not going to agree.

Quote:
Originally posted by ronny mulkey
And, I am not talking about judgement here - I am talking about an instance where some assignor told you to NEVER call 3 seconds, for example.
I have never had an assignor/IHSA Clinician or State Evaluator say never call 3 seconds. But I have had many of those folks refer to 3 seconds as a "game interrupter" and should not be the best call of an official. And when we talked about telling coaches how many timeouts they have as stated in 2-11-6, to not make a big deal out of that. Many have the attitude that the coaches should know their status, it is not our job to try to "find out" or go out of our way to tell them they have used all their timeouts. Mainly because if a coach is upset with you, you just gave him a great opportunity to get a "free shot" to rag on you about something in the game. I even have never heard anyone say not to call a Multiple Foul, but it has been said to not go looking for $h!t. And if you call one, that is exactly what you are doing.

But all those things I just said, have absolutely nothing to do with advancing or not advancing. It is the sum of many parts that will get you "moved up" or not. But if you are a maverick and doing your own thing, you can and will lose credibility in your officiating. But that is no different than anything else in life. But I have always said that basketball is about judgment, not rules. I do not have plays in many games that I would have to scratch my head over and wonder did I make the proper ruling. I think we tend to over-blow that here too often.

Peace

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 02:48pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Re: Re: Re: Ya but

Quote:
Originally posted by mick
Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge
Quote:
Originally posted by mick


Yabut, she stopped in Michigan before that.
What did she do exactly?
Weston -
Born in PA
moved to Wayne, MI (Detroit)
Played at Dayton, OH
MS Kent State
Worked a tourney in Michigan 70's
Taught Livonia, MI
U-Whitewater, WI
Central Mich U. Mt.Pleasant MI 31 years

(Source: Referee Mag - Feb 2004)
I do not think we are talking about the same person. I am talking about Mary Struckoff.

Peace
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 03:00pm
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Ya but

Quote:
Originally posted by JRutledge

I do not think we are talking about the same person. I am talking about Mary Struckoff.
Rut,
M'bad.
Weston writes Marcy's Memos for NCAA.
I get credit for kickin' this one.
mick
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 03:12pm
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great post

Jeffrey,

You finally answered a question directly. I wish I knew how to save this post.

Mulk
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Fri Feb 20, 2004, 03:26pm
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Re: great post

Quote:
Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Jeffrey,

You finally answered a question directly. I wish I knew how to save this post.

Mulk
Sure Ron. I have been at this specific site for about 7 years and this was the very first time I answered a question directly. But then again, you are the one that assumes that if they do not do it your way, they have to be doing something in the face of the NF.

Peace
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