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Tue Nov 09, 1999, 01:42am
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The question reads:
A-1 in his frontcourt and closely guarded by B-1, attempts a pass to his teammate near the division line. A-1's pass is deflected by B-1 and takes a high bounce toward the backcourt. A-2 runs into the backcourt and catches the ball before it strikes the floor in the backcourt. Official rules this a backcourt violation. Is the official correct? 
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Tue Nov 09, 1999, 03:09pm
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Yes,
I believe that the official was correct in this situation. Due to the fact that team mate A2 was considered in the backcourt when contact with the ball was made caused the ball to be in backcourt. Now had the player jumped from front court and slapped the ball back into front while his/her body was completely over back court but never in contact with the floor. We have nothing more than a good hustle play. Think about the out of bounds rule. A player hit with the ball with out of bounds causes the ball to be out of bounds. I would think the same logic applies here. ------------------ Ron Seattle Officials - Women's Basketball
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Tue Nov 09, 1999, 04:11pm
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Am I missing something here? Wasn't B1 the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt? I agree that A2 was first to touch in backcourt (standing in backcourt and touching the ball), but the team in team control (in this case team A) must be both the last to touch in frontcourt and the first to touch in backcourt after team control has been established and the ball has achieved frontcourt status. Since B1 was last to touch in frontcourt, one of the four elements of an over and back is missing, therefore no call. [This message has been edited by Mark Padgett (edited November 09, 1999).]
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Tue Nov 09, 1999, 05:09pm
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Well Well Well,
After reading the different responses here and on McGriffs board.....I just don't know. But let's think about this for a minute. A-1 in his frontcourt and closely guarded by B-1, attempts a pass to his teammate near the division line. A-1's pass is deflected by B-1 and takes a high bounce toward the backcourt. A-2 runs into the backcourt and catches the ball before it strikes the floor in the backcourt. A1 in front court = A team Control B-1 deflects pass in the air toward back court. A2 "RUNS" into back court and catches the ball "BEFORE" it hits the floor. Now if the ball maintains front court status until it hits something in backcourt and A2 is now standing in backcourt isn't A2 the last player to touch the ball in front court and the first to touch in backcourt at the same time. Now if only the player had let the ball bounce first. It would certainly be more clear as to the correct call. ------------------ Ron Seattle Officials - Women's Basketball [This message has been edited by Ron Pilo (edited November 09, 1999).]
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Tue Nov 09, 1999, 06:38pm
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My take on this question. Rule 9.9: A player shall not be the first to touch a ball which is in team control after it has been in the frontcourt, if he or she or a teammate last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt.
Since A2 is in backcourt and it was last touched by B1. I would have to say false.
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Tue Nov 09, 1999, 08:20pm
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Tim,
The ball wasn't in back court until player A2 touched. It still had front court status when A2 touched it. As soon as A2 touched it THEN it had backcourt status. I'll be there next week by the way. I will bring a copy of the evaluation form we use. ------------------ Ron Seattle Officials - Women's Basketball
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Tue Nov 09, 1999, 08:52pm
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Rule 9-9 doesn't mention status. The rule, as Tim mentioned, states: "if he...last touched or was touched by the ball in the frontcourt before it went to the backcourt."
This was not true, since A2 never touched the ball in the frontcourt.
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Wed Nov 10, 1999, 01:04am
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I must say...I would have to see this as a mistake. If B1 is the last to touch the ball, then it should be a a free ball for A2 to pick up. Of course that depends on whether A2 leaves the floor in the frontcourt and grabs the ball in the air and then lands in the backcourt...of course then this being a backcourt violation.
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Wed Nov 10, 1999, 01:07am
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quote: Ralph - I always start the count in this situation. Since we are using a highly visable count, I have never had a problem with a coach. In this case (and in my opinion) the rule is the rule. Same thing is the following very rare instance: A1 shoots, ball hits backboard and caroms into A's backcourt where it is recovered by member of team A. I start 10 second count. As I said, this is very rare, but it has happened. Again, never had a problem with players or coaches on this. I admit it is a little different than the first situation, but as I said, in this case, the rule is the rule. I don't want to start deciding which rules to enforce and which ones not to enforce. (OK, OK - in a a blowout I may get short term memory loss on some things) 
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Wed Nov 10, 1999, 01:37am
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Backcourt violation. NFHS Rules 4-4-3. Since B-1 was the last to touch the ball has no bearing on the call. The ball hitting the floor before going into the backcourt does. Since A-2 caught the ball before it hit the floor in the backcourt, it becomes a backcourt violation because A-2 caused it to have backcourt status. Had A-2 been a smart player and let the ball hit the floor before he/she touched it, it would not have been a violation. Just remember to start a 10-second backcourt count when A-2 recovers the ball after it hits the floor.
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Wed Nov 10, 1999, 02:01am
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quote: First of all, why would you start a 10 count when you say it is a backcourt violation? Second, it is my opinion that A2 cannot be both the last to touch in the frontcourt and the first to touch in the backcourt on the same touch. If, when B1 touched the ball, that was the last touch in the frontcourt, then there's no over and back no matter what. If, when A2 touched the ball, that was considered the last touch in the frontcourt because the ball bounced in the frontcourt prior to A2 touching it, then that same touch by A2 cannot also be the first touch in the backcourt. A2 only touched the ball once, it must be one or the other, not both.
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Wed Nov 10, 1999, 08:37am
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why would you start a 10 count when you say it is a backcourt violation?
I completely agree with Mark, but this reminds me of something a lot of refs don't know: if Team A has control of the ball in the frontcourt when the ball is batted into backcourt by Team A or B, a ten-second count should begin the instant the achieves backcourt status. This isn't a big deal if A causes the ball to enter the backcourt since it'll be a violation if they touch the ball first. However, if Team B caused the ball to roll slowly into the backcourt and A1 lollygags his way back to recover the ball, there's a good chance the 10 second count will expire. This would be a fun one to sell to Team A's coach. In fact, i suspect that some Rules Interpreters might deem this a Mickey Mouse(tm) call. But until i hear otherwise, i'll call it by the book...
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Wed Nov 10, 1999, 12:44pm
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Are we supposed to dissect rules like this and then try to sell them to a coach or could it be possible that the use of common sense should come into play here. For me its a no-brainer---NO CALL!!!
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Thu Nov 11, 1999, 09:31am
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quote: Mark, I wasn't referring to the starting of the count, I was referring to the backcourt call. Just because the ball hadn't touched the floor in backcourt when A2 touched it wouldn't be grounds for me to call a backcourt. By the letter of the law, a backcourt call might be in order but to call one would seem to me to somehow violate the spirit of the law. It would be pure Dickens to sell. Again, for me, a NO CALL.
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Thu Nov 11, 1999, 10:53am
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The answer is "No", the official was not correct in calling it a backcourt violation. There was a long discussion about this question in an informal group session of veteran officials on the test.
Even though the deflected ball still had frontcourt status when it was caught in the air by A-2 in the backcourt, A-2 was not next player to touch the ball after A-1 or any offensive player touched it. Since it was B-1 who last touched the ball in the frontcourt, a backcourt violation cannot be considered here regardless of the ball's frontcourt location status. Here's an example to illustrate this: Suppose A-2 is still in backcourt as A-1 dribbles the ball over the division line and achieves frontcourt status. Suddenly, B-1 deflects A-1's pass to A-3. The ball bounces high off the frontcourt towards the backcourt. A-2, who never reached the frontcourt because he/she is lagging behind the play in backcourt, sees the ball coming toward him/her in the air as a result of B-1's deflection and catches it. Is this backcourt violation? I think not. The question is similar in this respect, since A-2 had already achieved backcourt status before the ball was caught in air in backcourt. The only difference between my scenario and the question's scenario is that B-2 ran from frontcourt to backcourt to catch the ball off the air. Nevertheless, in both cases, A-2 has backcourt status.
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