Help, I've got the Peeks! (Mech Question)

[mick]

Originally posted by Dewey1
But I would disagree that you talk with your partner, in your situation you TELL your parnter what you did to his/her call. What I am talking about it is actually talking with and coming to an agreement about the call. Which once again leads to teamwork and not a hierarchy which is what I see when I read that you just change it and then tell your partner.

Dewey,
First, let us assume that the partner was wrong by not signaling, or by signaling incorrectly. (ie. Cuz we wouldn't change anything that was even remotely borderline )

We blow the whistle, stop the ensuing play... now what?

We go to our partner and quietly tell 'im he screwed up and he changes his call?

We go to our partner and quietly tell 'im he screwed up and we change the call?

We go to our partner and quietly tell 'im he screwed up and he refuses to change his call?

We change the call and our partner sees us doing it and knows he screwed up?

We change the call and then we go to our partner and quietly tell 'im he screwed up... and he says what?

How, exactly, does that work?
mick

[Edited by mick on Feb 5th, 2004 at 12:53 PM]

[Larks]

Curious, who is disadvantaged by killing it to get it right? B still gets it's run of the baseline.

[mick]

Originally posted by Larks
Curious, who is disadvantaged by killing it to get it right? B still gets it's run of the baseline.

In a fast moving game, with the shooter's defender down court all alone, B is disadvantaged.
In a deliberate game, with no pressing and no break away, there is no disadvantage... except to your stoopid partner.
mick

[Dewey1]

Mick

Option B is the closest. Though I never go to a partner to tell him/her that they SCREWED UP. I go to talk and work as a team. We pregame the situation and it looks good when we do it. It is not a negative situation like you seem to be making it sound with terms like screwed up. Communication is key when I work on the floor and changing a call is a time that we need to communicate not dictate.

Obviously you disagree with me. So I will leave it at this. I just believe that as a crew if you are going to change my call, talk to me so we all know what is going on.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dewey1
Mick

Option B is the closest. Though I never go to a partner to tell him/her that they SCREWED UP. I go to talk and work as a team. We pregame the situation and it looks good when we do it. It is not a negative situation like you seem to be making it sound with terms like screwed up. Communication is key when I work on the floor and changing a call is a time that we need to communicate not dictate.

Obviously you disagree with me. So I will leave it at this. I just believe that as a crew if you are going to change my call, talk to me so we all know what is going on.

Dewey1,
So, we go to our partner and quietly tell 'im he made a mistake and we change the call?

I do not necessarily disagree. (After all, the forum agrees with you.) I have kicked 'em before. And I can change.
I seek enlightenment of the exact mechanics.

Perhaps another similar suggestion will be forthcoming.
mick

[Dewey1]

Mick

The exact mechanics are sort of individual to each situation but if I was to textbook what I do this would be close. I whistle it dead go to my partner and ask what they saw. Most times if they have missed a clear call they say something like "I really didn't have a great look" or "I thought he/she was behind the line" something like that. I then say I clearly saw his toe on the line. Been as it was my partners call I like to have him/her change it rather than me. I think it looks better that way. Similar to when a partner misses a tip OB and calls it the wrong way. I use the same procedure. Whistle, huddle, share info and let partner change call. This way we are all in agreement all on the same page.

You do run into the odd time when a partner refuses to change his call (but this is extremely rare in my experience). In those cases I live with my partner making the call and talk about it in post game. But like I said this is extermly rate.

Hope that helps.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Dewey1
Mick

The exact mechanics are sort of individual to each situation but if I was to textbook what I do this would be close. I whistle it dead go to my partner and ask what they saw. Most times if they have missed a clear call they say something like "I really didn't have a great look" or "I thought he/she was behind the line" something like that. I then say I clearly saw his toe on the line. Been as it was my partners call I like to have him/her change it rather than me. I think it looks better that way. Similar to when a partner misses a tip OB and calls it the wrong way. I use the same procedure. Whistle, huddle, share info and let partner change call. This way we are all in agreement all on the same page.

You do run into the odd time when a partner refuses to change his call (but this is extremely rare in my experience). In those cases I live with my partner making the call and talk about it in post game. But like I said this is extermly rate.

Hope that helps.

FWIW the way I pregame THIS play is if one of us sees a toe on the line that person blows the whistle, puts up 2 fingers to the table and we get the ball back in play. No muss, no fuss and no huddle. In all other cases we huddle.

[cmathews]

Gentlemen,
May I humbly present that if you are going to change it, it better be whistled then and there. If we wait until the next opportunity such as an OOB or another foul or something, it may be too late. This is not a timing or scoring error that can be corrected at any time, it is a correctable error (eroneously count or cancel points) that must be corrected within the constraints listed in the book. The timing/scoring error would be if we signal a 3 and the scorer records a 2.

[mick]

Originally posted by Dewey1
Mick

The exact mechanics are sort of individual to each situation but if I was to textbook what I do this would be close. I whistle it dead go to my partner and ask what they saw. Most times if they have missed a clear call they say something like "I really didn't have a great look" or "I thought he/she was behind the line" something like that. I then say I clearly saw his toe on the line. Been as it was my partners call I like to have him/her change it rather than me. I think it looks better that way. Similar to when a partner misses a tip OB and calls it the wrong way. I use the same procedure. Whistle, huddle, share info and let partner change call. This way we are all in agreement all on the same page.

You do run into the odd time when a partner refuses to change his call (but this is extremely rare in my experience). In those cases I live with my partner making the call and talk about it in post game. But like I said this is extermly rate.

Hope that helps.

I understand.
Thanks.

[BigGref]

Had the same thing last Thursday. I blew whistle, went up to Trail and said "I had his foot on the line" he's "You're sure?" "Yep!" I try to get it done quick!

I don't know what I would do if it is a 1-point swing that makes a big dif in the winding seconds (6....5...4...) Should we put time back on, let players get a chance to get coached, IMO we whistle as quick as possible (you should know when you see the shot up and you have a descrepency with your partner, that you should kill it as soon as you notice it goes in {not watching ball though }) It should take 5 seconds and flow of a closing game shouldn't be interupted that badly.

Also wondered if anyone has changed a 2 to a 3. I don't see it happening but if T has a foot on the line in a gray area of coverage and I see wood b/t shoes and line, we got a situation.

Thanks All, this forum has been very informative!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
FWIW the way I pregame THIS play is if one of us sees a toe on the line that person blows the whistle, puts up 2 fingers to the table and we get the ball back in play. No muss, no fuss and no huddle. In all other cases we huddle.

Not trying to pile on, but I agree with Dan.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Larks
Do you peek?

3-man high school game. I am lead table side, closed down to the lane line extended. Ball is nr. the FT line ext. Skip pass over to the wing to the 2 guard who chucks it. Slot is straightlined but indicates 3. It goes. Slot indicated good.

Here is what I did....tell me what you have done / recommend...In theory, this question could apply, maybe more so to 2-man.

I took a peek and saw the foot clearly on the line. I indicated 2 (two fingers extended pointing towards the floor). After it went, I killed it and made sure we only scored 2. Come to find out, T saw what I saw too and also hit his whistle when I did.

What do you old guys think....will the peeks get me in the soup? Is there a cure for the peeks? Was I ok?

Larks
VIT

I agree with the information given so far when it comes to stopping the game and fixing it if you are 100% sure. I have no problem with that. However, to answer your question about the "peeks", yes they will get you in trouble. Do not let all the answers you have received so far give you a license to ball watch. Your responsibility was the post where most of the physical play occurs. If someone was to punch someone else who is going to pick it up? You obviously had 6 eyes on the ball. Well maybe not 6 since the C didn't have the play correct. In any case you have received good information if the situation comes up again but this particular situation should not come up again unless your next competitive match-up is across the lane at the 3 point line.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Not trying to pile on, but I agree with Dan.

If you guys say I hafta blow the whistle, I'll do it Dan's way, too. It is less disruptive.
...And my partner is still a screw-up.
(It's happened to me once, maybe twice, so far.)
mick

[Larks]

Man, can I pick the topics or what!!

Awesome feedback guys.

[mick]

Bending the topic a little, but not much.

We can from, time to time, get straight-lined, because of a quick pass (or a quick nap), and we just cannot see the line.

It is at those hopefully few times, that we hope our partner did have a look.

The mechanic is to not signal, but look at our partner. If he gives us three we're good, if not we pass.

During the two minute, dead ball game when we get together to pump ourselves up for the final seconds of a close game, I often mention "Let's make sure we help each other on the Threes."
mick