personal foul on player, then given a techniacl

[gwockenfuss]

I was refereeing on Saturday, and as I called the foul on a player for over the back, (made it the double bonus shot) he grabed the ball, and slammed it on the ground at me. I called the foul and then assessed him with an unsportsmen like T (which is also a personal foul). I went to the bench called the foul, then called the T on the same player.

I assessed it in the order that it happened, we assessed the personal foul shot, (no one on the line,) then the T. We messed up, as the fouled team did not get the ball, (that was our mistake). Also, can the coach call a correctable error on this?


Give me your opinion on this. Was this correct.

[cmathews]

it isn't correctable after the ball is inbounded. The rest of it was fine though...assuming the right team shot all the foul shots

[RookieDude]

originally posted by cmathews
it isn't correctable after the ball is inbounded

Hmmmmm, don't you mean "isn't correctable unless recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started." Rule 2-10

RD

P.S. Fussy, are you saying you didn't give the ball to the team that shot the FT's at the division line opposite the table? If so...why wasn't the Coach screaming AS you were giving the wrong team the ball?
What level of ball was this?

[Edited by RookieDude on Jan 11th, 2004 at 02:42 PM]

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by RookieDude

Hmmmmm, don't you mean "isn't correctable unless recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started." Rule 2-10

Which part of 2-10 says that giving the ball to the wrong team for a throw in is a correctable error?

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by gwockenfuss
I was refereeing on Saturday, and as I called the foul on a player for over the back, (made it the double bonus shot) he grabed the ball, and slammed it on the ground at me. I called the foul and then assessed him with an unsportsmen like T (which is also a personal foul).

No, it's not also a personal foul. IT does count as one of the five fouls toward disqualification and as a team foul toward the bonus, though (FED rules).

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Which part of 2-10 says that giving the ball to the wrong team for a throw in is a correctable error?

I wasn't saying the situation was correctable...just thought cmathews was quoting the correctable error language in a way that might confuse fussy...please accept my most sincere apologys if in fact I was confusing in my attempt to be non-confusing.

RD

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

No, it's not also a personal foul. IT does count as one of the five fouls toward disqualification and as a team foul toward the bonus, though (FED rules).

...and if I might add, ohh great one, the T counts as one of only two T's (unless flagrant) allowed before disqualification.

RD

[williebfree]

Welcome aboard gwockenfuss!

Now for the short-lived "honeymoon"

Originally posted by gwockenfuss
... as I called the foul on a player for over the back...

I am suprised this statement lasted this long.... "Over-the-back" is a phrase that is taboo in this forum to many... I am sure you meant "...the foul on the player for a Push (from behind), ..."

Can I speculate that you also indicated this call with a gesture that looked something like an ape reaching for a branch above your head?

The common challenge that is usually asked at this point is where in the rulebook does it state you have an "over-the-back" foul?

Subtle difference, yes; however, it is what separates those who are striving to maintain professionalism (and strive for higher levels) and those destined to remain stagnant at lower levels.

This is NOT a bash against competent officials who willingly stay at the lower levels for whatever personal reason(s). We need more veterans to assist beginners and keep "Bobby Knight-type" coaches in check at this level. I work the majority of my games at lower levels primarily because I do not want the travels required with a full varsity schedule (at least not until my children are gone, out of the house).

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by gwockenfuss
I was refereeing on Saturday, and as I called the foul on a player for over the back,...

What's over the back?

[TXMATTHEW05]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

What's over the back?

It's around the same definition as "reaching in."

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by TXMATTHEW05
Your lucky number is 32345543423225. Watch for it everywhere!

Love it!

[rcwilco]

It is amazing how many times one can see that number each day!

[gwockenfuss]

Originally posted by RookieDude

Hmmmmm, don't you mean "isn't correctable unless recognized by an official during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started." Rule 2-10

RD

P.S. Fussy, are you saying you didn't give the ball to the team that shot the FT's at the division line opposite the table? If so...why wasn't the Coach screaming AS you were giving the wrong team the ball?
What level of ball was this?

[Edited by RookieDude on Jan 11th, 2004 at 02:42 PM]

RookieDude
Varsity Boys Class C1 game.
Your right, we did not give the ball to that team, all the foul shots were shot by the correct team
My partner and I talked about it, and he even said it happen so fast that after the 2nd shot of the T, the other team took the ball out, since there was 3 seconds left on the clock. No , the Coach (team that shot the shots) did not say a word, told me good call. Although, as we entered the locker room where they were, he did come up to me and say, we were to get the ball also right? I said yes, we messed up. He said, that happens.
All went well after that, no one was upset.

[gwockenfuss]

Originally posted by williebfree
Welcome aboard gwockenfuss!

Now for the short-lived "honeymoon"

I am suprised this statement lasted this long.... "Over-the-back" is a phrase that is taboo in this forum to many... I am sure you meant "...the foul on the player for a Push (from behind), ..."

Can I speculate that you also indicated this call with a gesture that looked something like an ape reaching for a branch above your head?

The common challenge that is usually asked at this point is where in the rulebook does it state you have an "over-the-back" foul?

Subtle difference, yes; however, it is what separates those who are striving to maintain professionalism (and strive for higher levels) and those destined to remain stagnant at lower levels.

This is NOT a bash against competent officials who willingly stay at the lower levels for whatever personal reason(s). We need more veterans to assist beginners and keep "Bobby Knight-type" coaches in check at this level. I work the majority of my games at lower levels primarily because I do not want the travels required with a full varsity schedule (at least not until my children are gone, out of the house).

Willibfree
Your right, there is not a call that says "over-the-back" even though that is what happen, I will us the "Push from behind signal from now on. Thanks for the infor., As far as lower levels, I am assuming you mean, High School Ball. I would like to find out more about the higher level game, give me some infor.
gw

[gwockenfuss]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

No, it's not also a personal foul. IT does count as one of the five fouls toward disqualification and as a team foul toward the bonus, though (FED rules).

thanks for that information.
gw