OOB Whistle...just curious

nine01c · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 26, 2003, 11:51pm

How do you (Trail) react when the ball goes OOB on the endline, your partner (Lead) points BLUE! but you think he is wrong, the ball should realy go to WHITE? You are at or behind the 3 point arc, he is a few feet off the endline.

Hint: I am the Lead in this situation.

Adam · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 26, 2003, 11:59pm

If I'm trail, and the lead whistles one way and I think it should go another, I let it go. The key here is "think," and that I'm not 195% positive. If I'm 195% positive, I might call for a quick conference to discuss what he saw. Fact is, it's his (or her) call, and if he doesn't look to me for help, I have to assume he's positive.
If I'm lead on this and the ball isn't contacted after it's in my primary, I'm looking at my partner to see if he can help.

Adam

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 26, 2003, 11:59pm

I whistle, go to him and ask, "Do you see white touch the ball?" He'll either say "Yes, but then I saw blue touch it," or "No, I didn't." Then, if the call is changed, he changes it.

But it has to be very obvious. And sometimes it can be to me but not to him, when it goes out on the endline on MY HALF of the court.

JRutledge · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 27, 2003, 12:15am

This should be discussed in the pregame and how you should handle it. In my pregames, I always discuss these kind of plays, because if someone saw something and is 100% sure, then it should be changed. But if we have an "opinion," then it should not even be discussed until after the game. You start doing this ever time you have an "opinion," you will be doing it all game long.

Peace

rainmaker · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 27, 2003, 02:17am

nine01c -- It seems to me it's not so much where the ball goes out of bounds, as where the last touch was. If the players are all down around the key, I'm lead and the ball comes whizzing out of bounds below lead, and across the key from me, I'm going to look to my partner first to see if he saw a last touch. But only for an instant. If he's not up with a 100% direction, I'm going with the best I got, even if that's the thumbs up. If I'm trail in this sitch, I'm doing nothing, unless I'm asked by a look, or I'm 195% sure you've missed something. Or unless I'm really off my game that day and not doing anything right.

Bart Tyson · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 27, 2003, 12:35pm

In addition to what everone else said, consider the game situation. i.e. 1st half, 2nd half, you don't want to overturn a oob twice in a game. Also time and distance, who is winning and by how much.

ace · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 27, 2003, 01:16pm

If the play originated in Trails Primary (2 whistle) I will usually look to him for help because fact is if its coming out of his primary and I didnt see any tips I wanna know WHO last touched it. Nothings worst then the ball going out of bounds while your focused on post play and you never even saw the ball coming.

JA

bigwhistle · #8 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 27, 2003, 04:55pm

If I am totally convinced that my partner was the only one in the arena who does not know that the ball was out of bounds off of a certain color, I will come to him/her with my hand up. There will be no whistle, as this will draw the attention of everyone in the building to me. If my partner has a reason for making the call the way he/she did, he/she will give me a stop sign. This tells me that he/she saw the play and has a reason for making the call that was made.

If I blow the whistle, my partner is somewhat forced to change the call. If I go and offer advice and then the call remains the same, it looks as if the crew is not working together.

rainmaker · #9 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 27, 2003, 08:33pm

Quote:

Originally posted by bigwhistle
If I am totally convinced that my partner was the only one in the arena who does not know that the ball was out of bounds off of a certain color, I will come to him/her with my hand up. There will be no whistle, as this will draw the attention of everyone in the building to me. If my partner has a reason for making the call the way he/she did, he/she will give me a stop sign. This tells me that he/she saw the play and has a reason for making the call that was made.

If I blow the whistle, my partner is somewhat forced to change the call. If I go and offer advice and then the call remains the same, it looks as if the crew is not working together.

Wow, I really like this. As the partner who usually needs more help, rather than the other way around, I appreciate your concern for "how it looks." The other thing I've had partners do is come out of the "huddle" nodding firmly, especially when I don't change my call. This gives a much better impression than the discouraged shake I've seen a time or two!

Kelvin green · #10 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 27, 2003, 08:54pm

As Trail you need to leave this alone. It is lead's call, unless for sure you know there is a blocked shot in there that you partner completely missed.

As Lead I recommend to all do not glance at your partner unless you really need the help.

Dont look and then go with your best guess. There is nothing wrong with talking to your partner- the goal is to get this right. As Lead blow your whistle. Look at your partner and ask them... Did Blue touch the ball? If they say yes, then you learn for sure what happens. If they say no you know what happened? As Trail I will answer Yes, no, or I did not see it... If my partner asks I did not see it, then I either give a color or go up with a jump.

This needs to bee pregamed. Some refs dont like it this way. There is nothing wrong with communicating in the open there. If you glance and then you go with a signal a coach will chew on you for guessing. If you glance at me I figure you do not know and I will signal...

nine01c · #11 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 27, 2003, 11:40pm

Everyone, thanks for your replies. The situation I had in the game was my partner on Trail three times shouted out to me NO,BLUE, OFF WHITE! (or vise versa) after I had just blown my whistle and come up strong with a WHITE! I felt confident that I had the calls (not originating from the Trail area), and I made no eye contact looking for help.Actually, I was wondering why he was even looking at the ball being tapped out on the endline. Anyway, I went with what he had so we wouldn't "argue."

Unless my partner makes eye contact looking for help, I will let his call stand, even if I think I saw it differently. Chances are, he is right and it just looked different to me. In a VERY close game near the end, I will offer info if I am POSITIVE he is wrong, but the eye contact usually comes anyway. This guy unnecessarily put me in the position where I had to say OK and change my call (even though I thought I had it right), or say NO, I'M SURE, and stick with my call, in effect "overruling" him.
No way would I do this three times in a decent game, not to mention that this one was a FR girls game, final 68-14.
Give me a break. I think unsolicited "help" should be kept to a minimum (and I need a better pregame).

BktBallRef · #12 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 27, 2003, 11:49pm

Quote:

Originally posted by nine01c
Everyone, thanks for your replies. The situation I had in the game was my partner on Trail three times shouted out to me NO,BLUE, OFF WHITE! (or vise versa) after I had just blown my whistle and come up strong with a WHITE!

Definitely the wrong way to handle it. Be sure you pre-game with him to come to you, if you ever work with him again.

rcwilco · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Dec 28, 2003, 12:00pm

My pregame as I was taught at my camps is: If I have a different direction and I am absolutely positive, I will come quickly to you with a very short question, (did you see blue touch?), and then it is their call, if my partner is so sure that they are coming in to me I will almost always change it. This should not happen very often. Secondly, if you look directly at me before giving a direction, I am going to immediatly give a strong signal with no verbalization of the direction if I know, my partner will signal and verbalize and we are putting the ball in play. If I look at you and you do not know I will come up with something and we are moivng on. I like this becase it has stopped confusion, conferences, etc. on my part and I think it shows good communication and teamwork.

rainmaker · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 29, 2003, 11:22am

Quote:

Originally posted by nine01c
Everyone, thanks for your replies. The situation I had in the game was my partner on Trail three times shouted out to me NO,BLUE, OFF WHITE! (or vise versa) after I had just blown my whistle and come up strong with a WHITE! I felt confident that I had the calls (not originating from the Trail area), and I made no eye contact looking for help.Actually, I was wondering why he was even looking at the ball being tapped out on the endline. Anyway, I went with what he had so we wouldn't "argue."

Unless my partner makes eye contact looking for help, I will let his call stand, even if I think I saw it differently. Chances are, he is right and it just looked different to me. In a VERY close game near the end, I will offer info if I am POSITIVE he is wrong, but the eye contact usually comes anyway. This guy unnecessarily put me in the position where I had to say OK and change my call (even though I thought I had it right), or say NO, I'M SURE, and stick with my call, in effect "overruling" him.
No way would I do this three times in a decent game, not to mention that this one was a FR girls game, final 68-14.
Give me a break. I think unsolicited "help" should be kept to a minimum (and I need a better pregame).

Nine01c -- It's probably too late to rehash it with him now, but the next time someone treats you this way -- and it is how someone treating YOU, and has nothing to do with basketball -- you need to gently but firmly let him know at the first opportunity that you are a big girl, and you can handle your own area. I'd say something at the first time out or end of period. Then if he does it again, after he yells like that, you run to him (as he SHOULD have done for you) and you say very quietly, "It's my call, but I want to hear what you saw" Then let him talk, and if he still doesn't back down (let's say you caved on the first one in this example), you say, "Thanks but it's my call and I'm sticking with white" Then you jog to the table and say, "Last touched by blue, white ball!" Grab the ball, dash back and get the ball into play. If he doesn't like it, tough.

Bart Tyson · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Dec 29, 2003, 12:10pm

This is probably a 10yr, one year official. Has no clue and anything you say to him won't do any good.