Jump Ball

[Zoochy]

On the Jumpball, when does the Umpire chop, to start the clock?
A) When the Referee tosses the ball?
B) When either jumper touches the ball?
C) When a non jumper touches the ball?
D) When a team controls the ball?

Legal or Illegal?
After the referee tosses the ball, but before either jumper tap the ball.
A) A2 backs off the circle
B) A2 and B2 are not within 3 feet of the circle and A2 runs directly behind B2.

[SNIPERBBB]

B with the caveat that it must be legal touching

Both are legal.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

B with the caveat that it must be legal touching

Both are legal.

I agree with these answers.

[BillyMac]

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

Calvin Coolidge once said, "The things I did not say never hurt me." Of course, he was not talking about basketball, but many officials would be smart to heed his sage advice as they communicate with coaches, and players.

Good communication skills are important tools to have on any official’s tool belt. Good communication with a partner, with a player, or with a coach, can go a long way to maintaining control of the game, having good game management, and having a smooth game. Sometimes this communication takes place in oral form, talking to players, or coaches, in some cases to explain a ruling, or in other cases to prevent a violation, or a foul. However, probably for reasons of tradition, there have been things that officials often, or sometimes, say during a game that do not have any basis in the rules, and should probably not be said in a game. This article will cover some of those “best left unsaid” statements.

"Hold your spots", said by the referee, or tosser, before the jump ball, is only rule based for some of the players. One exception to this rule, and there are others, is that players on the jump ball circle can move off the jump ball circle at any time: before the toss, during the toss, or after the toss.

"You can't stand behind him”, stated by the referee, or the umpire, before a jump ball, to a player who is directly behind an opponent, both whom are ten feet off the jump ball circle, is not rule based. The rule that players can’t stand behind, within three feet, of an opponent, only applies to players on, and within three feet of, the jump ball circle. Players farther back than that can stand wherever they want, as long as they get to that spot first.

Finally, a thought by social commentator Will Rogers, “Never miss a good chance to shut up.”

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

B with the caveat that it must be legal touching.

Which means that if the timekeeper mistakenly starts the clock, it gets reset to eight minutes.

[BillyMac]

Jump Balls: Microbursts Of Mayhem

The jump ball is archaic, as outdated as two-hand set shots, laced basketballs, peach baskets, and chicken wire cages around the perimeter of the court. For generations of players and fans, jump balls have been a forgettable, anachronistic formality. Coaches bemoan inconsistent tosses and unevenly governed movement rules, while some officials are weary of policing these microbursts of mayhem.

Why do we have a massive, complex rule set for a split second event that usually only happens once per game? At the start of the game, the tallest players on each team square off against each other. The referee tries to make a decent toss, and the umpire just hopes that nothing weird happens because many of us, including me, don't know the jump ball rules as well as we once did.

Now that we usually only have one jump ball per game, many officials, players, and coaches don't know the rules as well as we knew them back in ancient times. Back in ancient times, every official knew all the permutations of the jump ball rules, before the toss, after the toss, after the tap, jumpers, non-jumpers on the circle, non-jumpers off the circle, backward, forward, inside out, and upside down. Officials had to know these jump ball restrictions because in some games you could have dozens of jump balls, in three different jump ball circles, the jump ball to start the game, each period, overtime periods, and all situations where we now use the alternating possession arrow to adjudicate.

Back then, officials, players, and coaches all knew the jump ball rules. Some coaches even had different jump ball plays for each of the three jump ball circles depending on whether one expected to win or lose the jump ball.

Which brings us to the present problem: how well do otherwise very good officials know, understand, and adjudicate the jump ball rules today, when they are only memorizing and enforcing the most egregious violations e.g., ball touched on the way up, ball touched three times by jumper, ball caught by jumper, and ball hitting the floor without being touched by at least one of the jumpers?

In a two-person game, while one official is focused entirely on the tossing mechanics, and their own safety, it leaves only one official to accurately and realistically observe all eight non-jumpers and the two jumpers for violations, especially when jump ball rules are so complex, we only see a jump ball about once a game, and when jump ball violations happen in a split-second?

Can one recite all the jump ball rules without peeking at the rulebook? Based on original positions of players, jumpers, non-jumpers, on the circle, off the circle, who can move, limits of movement, crossing lines, including lines not even marked on the court, before the toss, during the toss, after the toss, after the tap. Add to that processing, interpreting, and enforcing all these rules within the fraction of a second that it takes for a jump ball. Be honest. If you can adjudicate it all perfectly from memory, you’re a better official than I am (with apologies to Rudyard Kipling’s “Gunga Din”).

To my point of otherwise extremely competent officials not fully understanding and memorizing all the many jump ball rules and restrictions, several times a year I hear otherwise extremely competent officials saying, pre-jump, “Hold your spots” to all eight non-jumpers, or, “You can't stand behind him”, to a player who is directly behind an opponent, both of whom are ten feet off the jump ball circle.

I know that I should know the jump ball rules better, but I figure why bother for a play that usually happens only once per game, lasts only a split second; with rules that basically might as well be in Ancient Greek to players, coaches, and fans; and that usually goes smoothly 95% of the time.

The jump ball is archaic, some jump ball rules are poorly understood and/or poorly enforced, and we should start games with some other method. It's the twenty-first century. We now have alternating possession arrows. The alternating possession arrow was created for a good reason, so let's get rid of all jump balls, give the ball to the visitors, or flip a coin, to start the game, and use the alternating possession arrow for the rest of the game, including overtimes, the most dangerous time for a jump ball mistake.

God created the alternating possession arrow for a reason, to smite all jump balls.

[ilyazhito]

The NFHS Rules Committee would have to sign off on that change. You could submit the proposal to the CT State Interpreter, who would forward it to the proper channels to get it voted on for next season, but it would be ultimately up to the NFHS Rules Committee to make the change.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The NFHS Rules Committee would have to sign off on that change. You could submit the proposal to the CT State Interpreter, who would forward it to the proper channels to get it voted on for next season, but it would be ultimately up to the NFHS Rules Committee to make the change.

Great answer

Sent from my SM-S926U using Tapatalk

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

Calvin Coolidge once said, "The things I did not say never hurt me." Of course, he was not talking about basketball, but many officials would be smart to heed his sage advice as they communicate with coaches, and players.

Good communication skills are important tools to have on any official’s tool belt. Good communication with a partner, with a player, or with a coach, can go a long way to maintaining control of the game, having good game management, and having a smooth game. Sometimes this communication takes place in oral form, talking to players, or coaches, in some cases to explain a ruling, or in other cases to prevent a violation, or a foul. However, probably for reasons of tradition, there have been things that officials often, or sometimes, say during a game that do not have any basis in the rules, and should probably not be said in a game. This article will cover some of those “best left unsaid” statements.

"Hold your spots", said by the referee, or tosser, before the jump ball, is only rule based for some of the players. One exception to this rule, and there are others, is that players on the jump ball circle can move off the jump ball circle at any time: before the toss, during the toss, or after the toss.

"You can't stand behind him”, stated by the referee, or the umpire, before a jump ball, to a player who is directly behind an opponent, both whom are ten feet off the jump ball circle, is not rule based. The rule that players can’t stand behind, within three feet, of an opponent, only applies to players on, and within three feet of, the jump ball circle. Players farther back than that can stand wherever they want, as long as they get to that spot first.

Finally, a thought by social commentator Will Rogers, “Never miss a good chance to shut up.”

Rut and I have always said that silence can never be misquoted.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

The NFHS Rules Committee would have to sign off on that change. You could submit the proposal to the CT State Interpreter, who would forward it to the proper channels to get it voted on for next season, but it would be ultimately up to the NFHS Rules Committee to make the change.

It's on its way up the ladder.

Wish me luck.

Zoochy's (who I knew already knew the correct answer) original thread question just hit a nerve, and I had to do something about it, first by writing and sending in a cynical, self deprecating, and hopefully humorous article for possible publication in IAABO Sportorials Magazine (see above), and then, with encourgement from ilyazhito and Raymond, to make a formal suggestion to my Conneciticut IAABO State Interpreter.

[BillyMac]

(Note: Yeah, I know that Carole King wrote and sang You've Got A Friend, but I like the James Taylor version better.)

Originally Posted by BillyMac

It's on its way up the ladder.

I'm afraid that if my jump ball elimination rule suggestion get approved, my friendship with Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will end forever.

But it needs to be done, so let the cards fall where they may.

I've already got plenty of friends.

[Zoochy]

[QUOTE=BillyMac;1054821]It's on its way up the ladder.

Wish me luck.

Zoochy's (who I knew already knew the correct answer) original thread question just hit a nerve, and I had to do something about it, first by writing and sending in a cynical, self deprecating, and hopefully humorous article for possible publication in IAABO Sportorials Magazine (see above), and then, with encourgement from ilyazhito and Raymond, to make a formal suggestion to my Conneciticut IAABO State Interpreter.

BillyMac
I know how much you enjoy Jump Balls. I wish we could start the game without a Jump Ball and just have Visitors or Home start with a division line throw-in. Coin toss would be too much. That means I have to bring a coin. I hate to see an official use a penny for the toss. We'll keep the coin toss for Football and Volleyball
My last 3 games the referee stated 'Don't Move' before they tossed the ball. I always wanted to ask, 'What would you do if a player moved?' But that is not worth a halftime discussion.
I actually saw an official make a player move his foot. Would not allow him to straddle the division line

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

BillyMac ... I wish we could start the game without a Jump Ball and just have Visitors or Home start with a division line throw-in. Coin toss would be too much. That means I have to bring a coin. I hate to see an official use a penny for the toss. We'll keep the coin toss for Football and Volleyball. My last 3 games the referee stated 'Don't Move' before they tossed the ball. I always wanted to ask, 'What would you do if a player moved?' But that is not worth a halftime discussion. I actually saw an official make a player move his foot. Would not allow him to straddle the division line.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... how well do otherwise very good officials know, understand, and adjudicate the jump ball rules today, when they are only memorizing and enforcing the most egregious violations e.g., ball touched on the way up, ball touched three times by jumper, ball caught by jumper, and ball hitting the floor without being touched by at least one of the jumpers?

Zoochy: Thanks for helping me to make my point.



I absolutely love this artificial intelligence image that I created.

This was good reason to post it again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

a formal suggestion to my Conneciticut IAABO State Interpreter.

I got a reply.

Will be discussed with five other local Connecticut IAABO interpreters.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Will be discussed with five other local Connecticut IAABO interpreters.

Consensus among the six local Connecticut IAABO interpreters was the jump ball is traditional and should remain in the game.

Also, giving the ball to a team to start the first period, but especially an overtime period, would provide an "unearned advantage".

So, the proposal won't be making its way "up the ladder", at least from Connecticut.