IAABO Refresher Exam #17

[BillyMac]

Our IAABO Refresher Exam study group met last night. We could not come up with a consensus on question #17. We did not have access to an answer sheet, but were given a citation 4-42-5.

Note that unlike other similar questions in past years, the kick was by the throwin team.

#17 Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. A-1’s throw-in is kicked by A-2. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer turn the arrow toward Team B’s basket. Is the official correct?

What say you, and why?

[Raymond]

What are the conditions that cause an AP throw-in to end?

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[Zoochy]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Our IAABO Refresher Exam study group met last night. We could not come up with a consensus on question #17. We did not have access to an answer sheet, but were given a citation 4-42-5.

Note that unlike other similar questions in past years, the kick was by the throwin team.
#17 Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. A-1’s throw-in is kicked by A-2. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer turn the arrow toward Team B’s basket. Is the official correct?

What say you, and why?

I say NO and here is why
Team A keeps the A/P arrow. Did Team A violate the Throw-in? No. Was the ball legally touched? No, it was kicked. Thus, DO NOT change the A/P arrow. The new Throw-in is from the result of the Kick violation. Team B will have the Throw-in at one of the 8 magic location (4 in the Front court, 4 in the Back court) based on the location of the kick violation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I say NO and here is why

Team A keeps the A/P arrow. Did Team A violate the Throw-in? No. Was the ball legally touched? No, it was kicked. Thus, DO NOT change the A/P arrow. The new Throw-in is from the result of the Kick violation. Team B will have the Throw-in at one of the 8 magic location (4 in the Front court, 4 in the Back court) based on the location of the kick violation.

What causes an AP throw-in to end, knowing that the AP arrow changes when an AP throw-in ends.

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[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by Zoochy

I say NO and here is why
Team A keeps the A/P arrow. Did Team A violate the Throw-in? No. Was the ball legally touched? No, it was kicked. Thus, DO NOT change the A/P arrow. The new Throw-in is from the result of the Kick violation. Team B will have the Throw-in at one of the 8 magic location (4 in the Front court, 4 in the Back court) based on the location of the kick violation.

The rule says "lost if the throw-in team violates", which they did via the kick. Loss of arrow.

[bob jenkins]

Interesting. NCAAW specifically says "throw-in violation" (emphasis added):

Art. 2. The alternating-possession procedure starts when an official places
the ball at the disposal of a player for a throw-in� The alternating-possession
procedure ends and the arrow is reversed immediately when a passed ball legally
touches an inbounds player, when a player, who is located on the playing court,
touches and causes the ball to be out of bounds, or when the throw-in team
commits a throw-in violation�

Art. 7. The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in shall be
lost when the throw-in team violates the throw-in provisions� (See Rule 9-4�

I always thought it was the same. Did it change in NFHS?

[SNIPERBBB]

ART. 6 . . . The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating-possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow. If the defensive team commits a violation during the throw-in, the possession arrow is not switched.

The way it's worded to me means any violation by A loses the arrow. If NFHS said "committed a throw-in violation" or "violates the throw-in" it would be clearer if they intend for A to not lose the arrow here.

[BillyMac]

4-42-5: The throw-in ends when:
a. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds.
b. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player out-of-bounds, except as in 7-5-7.
c. The throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.

[BillyMac]

Note: These are kicks by the defensive team. The exam question asks about an alternating possession throwin kicked by the offensive team

Basketball Rules Interpretations 2016-17
SITUATION 11: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. After A1 releases the ball, B1 commits a kicking violation. RULING: A1’s throw-in has ended because of B1’s kicking violation. A new throw-in is awarded to Team A at the spot out-of-bounds nearest to where the kicking violation occurred. NOTE: Because the defensive team committed a violation during the alternating-possession throwin, the alternating-possession arrow is not switched.

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in in Team A's backcourt. Al's throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2's kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-pos-session throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

ART. 6 . . . The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating-possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow. If the defensive team commits a violation during the throw-in, the possession arrow is not switched.

More:

6-4 Alternating Possession
ART. 5 The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends as in 4-42-5.
ART. 6 The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow. If the defensive team commits a violation during the throw-in, the possession arrow is not switched.

4-42 Throw-In
ART. 5 . . . The throw-in ends when:
a. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds.
b. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player out-of-bounds, except as in 7-5-7.
c. The throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I would be surprised if there isn't a case play.

Seek, and ye shall find. (Matthew 7:7)

Bingo!

6.4.5 SITUATION A: Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating procedure. A1 commits a violation. RULING: B’s ball for a throw-in because of the violation. In addition, the possession arrow is reversed and is pointed towards B’s basket. Team B will have the next throw-in opportunity under the alternating procedure. Team A has lost its opportunity by virtue of the violation. A violation by Team A during an alternating-possession throw-in is the only way a team loses its turn under the procedure. COMMENT: If a foul by either team occurs before an alternating-possession throw-in ends, the foul is penalized as required and play continues as it normally would, but the possession arrow is not reversed. The same team will still have the arrow for the next alternating-possession throw-in. The arrow is reversed when an alternating-possession throw-in ends. (6-4-4)

Originally Posted by BillyMac

#17 Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. A-1’s throw-in is kicked by A-2. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer turn the arrow toward Team B’s basket. Is the official correct?

Yes, the official is correct.

[bob jenkins]

I will be interested to see what IAABO says. There seems to be a conflict between 4-42-5c ("throw-in violation" and 6-4-6 ("violation"). Given the clarity in other rules codes, I think 6-4-6 in in error and they out a word.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I will be interested to see what IAABO says. There seems to be a conflict between 4-42-5c ("throw-in violation" and 6-4-6 ("violation"). Given the clarity in other rules codes, I think 6-4-6 in in error and they (left) out a word.

Agree.

There are always a few contoversial answers on the Refesher Exam every year.

Probably another year with a debate with my local intepreter.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

There are always a few contoversial answers on the Refesher Exam every year.

My buddy got 99/100, only one wrong.

He only received his score, the answer sheet has not yet been distributed to the rank and file.

We're pretty sure that he got a different question incorrect:

86) The Trail is responsible for signaling all three-point tries, regardless from whose PCA the try originates.

He answered yes, probably incorrrect due to this:

IAABO Mechanics Manual Page 270 Segment 6 Three Point Try Coverage
B. Only the official from whose PCA the try originates signals the three‑point try.

However:

17) Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. A-1’s throw-in is kicked by A-2. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer turn the arrow toward Team B’s basket. Is the official correct?

He answered no to this, and since he only got one wrong, probably #86, the correct answer to #17 must be his no answer.

So what's the correct answer, or is this a matter of IAABO carelessly omitting a single word, as already mentioned by bob jenkins?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

My buddy got 99/100, only one wrong ... since he only got one wrong, probably #86, the correct answer to #17 must be his no answer.

So, using my friend’s 99/100 as a clue (see previous post), and against my better judgment, I answered #17 as no and got 100/100.

So why do I not feel great, getting a 100% for the first time ever, going back forty-five years?

Not because I cheated, because we are encouraged to collaborate on the exam, I even attended the only available "live" study group (I hate Zoom meetings).

So why do I not feel great?

Because I honestly believe that the answer to #17 should have been yes.

Instead of standing up for what I believe to be right, I took the easy path to a 100%.

A bittersweet victory.

17) Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. A-1’s throw-in is kicked by A-2. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer turn the arrow toward Team B’s basket. Is the official correct?

6.4.5 SITUATION A: Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating procedure. A1 commits a violation. RULING: B’s ball for a throw-in because of the violation. In addition, the possession arrow is reversed and is pointed towards B’s basket. Team B will have the next throw-in opportunity under the alternating procedure. Team A has lost its opportunity by virtue of the violation. A violation by Team A during an alternating-possession throw-in is the only way a team loses its turn under the procedure. COMMENT: If a foul by either team occurs before an alternating-possession throw-in ends, the foul is penalized as required and play continues as it normally would, but the possession arrow is not reversed. The same team will still have the arrow for the next alternating-possession throw-in. The arrow is reversed when an alternating-possession throw-in ends. (6-4-4)

Without my friend's single wrong answer for #86 (corrected by me), I would not have gotten 100%.

Anybody have anything to say about question #17, my citation, or the IAABO yes answer?