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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 06:57pm
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IAABO Refresher Exam

Sometime after Dec. 01st there was a thread regarding a question on this year's IAABO Refresher Exam. I made a post in the thread that I would get a hold of Roger MacTavish and discuss the quesiton with him. Unfortunately life outside of basketball intervened and I have yet to get in touch with Roger. To make matters worse I cannot remember the question number nor can I remember the thread. And no senile old geezer jokes from you young whippersnappers either, . So if somebody can help me, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

MTD, Sr.
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 07:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Sometime after Dec. 01st there was a thread regarding a question on this year's IAABO Refresher Exam. I made a post in the thread that I would get a hold of Roger MacTavish and discuss the quesiton with him. Unfortunately life outside of basketball intervened and I have yet to get in touch with Roger. To make matters worse I cannot remember the question number nor can I remember the thread. And no senile old geezer jokes from you young whippersnappers either, . So if somebody can help me, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

MTD, Sr.
I think it had to do with one of the first 75 questions.
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 08:28pm
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Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap View Post
I think it had to do with one of the first 75 questions.

Not funny because I was making a serious request.

MTD, Sr.
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Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 08:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Sometime after Dec. 1st there was a thread regarding a question on this year's IAABO Refresher Exam. I made a post in the thread that I would get a hold of Roger MacTavish and discuss the question with him. To make matters worse I cannot remember the question number nor can I remember the thread. So if somebody can help me, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
I remember your post, and your generous offer, and the fact that I was looking forward to your update, but I can't find your post, even using the Advanced Search function.

So, why don't you start with this question? I thought that one of the guidelines for goaltending was that it had to be a try. I got this one wrong, and, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!":

2008-09 IAABO Refresher Exam
7. A-1, from behind the 3 point line, throws the ball toward his/her basket for a catch and dunk. The ball is on its downward flight outside the cylinder above the ring level and in the judgment of the official has a chance of entering the basket when A-2 catches the ball and dunks it. The official rules this is goaltending and disallows the basket. Is the official correct?
7. Yes Rule 5 Section 2 Art 1; Rule 4 Section 22, Rule 9 Section 12

To me, throwing the ball toward the basket for a catch and dunk is a pass, not a try.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Dec 21, 2008 at 09:03pm.
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 09:23pm
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That one was discussed at length at our meeting. Our interpreter just finished a 4 year stint on the rules committee. There were a couple of others as well. Not sure if the national website has them posted yet. They had a couple last year that were argued with the test author including one regarding a kicked ball on an AP arrow throw-in and the disagreement led to some clarification that the throw in was not legally completed so the new throw was on the violation. And the AP arrow does not change.
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 11:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I remember your post, and your generous offer, and the fact that I was looking forward to your update, but I can't find your post, even using the Advanced Search function.

So, why don't you start with this question? I thought that one of the guidelines for goaltending was that it had to be a try. I got this one wrong, and, "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!":

2008-09 IAABO Refresher Exam
7. A-1, from behind the 3 point line, throws the ball toward his/her basket for a catch and dunk. The ball is on its downward flight outside the cylinder above the ring level and in the judgment of the official has a chance of entering the basket when A-2 catches the ball and dunks it. The official rules this is goaltending and disallows the basket. Is the official correct?
7. Yes Rule 5 Section 2 Art 1; Rule 4 Section 22, Rule 9 Section 12

To me, throwing the ball toward the basket for a catch and dunk is a pass, not a try.

BillyMac:

That is a good one. I have been lax this year in my preseason reading and was going over the Exam Thursday night while watching Andy go through swim practice and the the answer to the question hit me in the face like a cement block. It is on my list of questions that I will discuss with Roger.

MTD, Sr.
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Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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Ohio High School Athletic Association
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Old Sun Dec 21, 2008, 11:31pm
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Mark,

One that we discussed at length on the NFHS forum was:

55. A-1s pass is in flight to A-2 when A-3 and B-3 commit a double personal foul. The official awards the ball back to team A nearest the spot the ball was located when the fouls occurred. Is the official correct?

55. No Rule 4 Section 36 Art 2a; Rule 4 Section 12 Art 2

One member who "spoke IABBO" said that the question denoted the physical location that the ball was over but location could also be where A1 had the ball in PC when the pass was made, which would mean the official in the question was correct.

Any thoughts?
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 09:44pm
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Here's My Thought ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by shishstripes View Post
55. A-1s pass is in flight to A-2 when A-3 and B-3 commit a double personal foul. The official awards the ball back to team A nearest the spot the ball was located when the fouls occurred. Is the official correct?
55. No Rule 4 Section 36 Art 2a; Rule 4 Section 12 Art 2
Any thoughts?
4-4-3: A ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last
in contact with a player or the court.
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Old Mon Dec 22, 2008, 11:01pm
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I understand the rule and applying it, I say the answer is wrong. Official should inbound at the location of the ball at the time of the fouls, which is where A1 had it last. Should the question be read differently?
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Old Tue Dec 23, 2008, 09:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shishstripes View Post
I understand the rule and applying it, I say the answer is wrong. Official should inbound at the location of the ball at the time of the fouls, which is where A1 had it last. Should the question be read differently?
As long as you understand the rule (and you seem to), the only people who should care whether the question should be worded differently are those considering whether to use the question next year.
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Old Tue Dec 23, 2008, 11:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shishstripes View Post
55. No Rule 4 Section 36 Art 2a; Rule 4 Section 12 Art 2

One member who "spoke IABBO" said that the question denoted the physical location that the ball was over but location could also be where A1 had the ball in PC when the pass was made, which would mean the official in the question was correct.
There is no way the IAABO answer is correct. The question tests two things: what happens when you have a double foul (Answer: Point of interruption [4-36-2a]) and who has control when the ball is being passed between teammates (Answer: team control remains with Team A, [4-12-2]).

The language from the question: "The official awards the ball back to team A nearest the spot the ball was located when the fouls occurred" is nearly verbatim from the rule cited for point of interruption: a throw-in to the team that was in control "at a spot nearest to where the ball was located" when play was interrupted.

If the question sought to test knowledge of "ball location," then the answer key would have cited 4-4-3: a ball in flight retains the location of the player who last touched it.
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Old Tue Dec 23, 2008, 06:33pm
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Poorly Worded Question, And/Or Answer Citation ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef View Post
If the question sought to test knowledge of "ball location," then the answer key would have cited 4-4-3: a ball in flight retains the location of the player who last touched it.
Agree. Poorly worded question. Can it be fixed?

55. A-1’s pass is in flight to A-2 when A-3 and B-3 commit a double personal foul. The official awards the ball back to team A nearest the spot the ball was, midway between A-2, and A-3, when the fouls occurred. Is the official correct?

55. No Rule 4 Section 36 Art 2a; Rule 4 Section 12 Art 2; 4-4-3:

How's that. Better?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Dec 23, 2008 at 09:20pm.
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Old Tue Dec 23, 2008, 09:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Agree. Poorly worded question. Can it be fixed?
Sure. Change the answer from "no" to "yes." Everything else is correct. If the test sought to test knowledge of "ball location" then your fix is fine.
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Old Tue Dec 23, 2008, 09:20pm
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I Hate This Exam !!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BayStateRef View Post
Sure. Change the answer from "no" to "yes." Everything else is correct. If the test sought to test knowledge of "ball location" then your fix is fine.
With my "fix" the correct answer should be no. The official should have awarded the ball to Team A at the spot closest to A-1, not midway between A-2 and A-3, because a ball which is in flight retains the same location as when it was last in contact with a player or the court.

If you're not familiar with IAABO Refresher Exams, they test all kinds (plural) of rule knowledge in one question, and in many cases the answer hinges on only one word, change that one word, and the answer changes. Sometimes the question is about the rule, sometimes it's about a definition in the rule, sometimes it's about the penalty, sometimes it's about where the penalty (throwin) will be enforced. I hate these exams!!!
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Old Tue Dec 23, 2008, 09:24pm
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IAABO had to publish an "errata" to four questions on this year's refresher exam. With that proven record for errors, I am more likely to believe a typographical error than anything else.
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