Not Beckoned Technical Foul ???

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In my middle school games, especially girls, I almost always beckon as soon as a player goes down and stays down for a few seconds.

I've got to stop doing that almost automatically and start thinking about it for a second, or so.

"Is this player really hurt?"

"Should I beckon the coach?"

Why do you do it in girls games and not boys games?

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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Why do you do it in girls games and not boys games?

Sugar and spice and everything nice.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sugar and spice and everything nice.

I don't understand that response. I was asking a serious question about why you treat athletes differently based on gender when it comes to hitting the floor.

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[bob jenkins]

I'd also ask why the need to beckon at all?

In 99.9% of the cases:

1) the coach will see the affected player.

2) Any reasonable time lapse between the player (potentially) being injured and the time the coach gets out there won't affect the seriousness of the injury (e.g., the ACL is already torn, or not -- it's not going to "tear more" while the coach takes a few seconds to decide if the payer is really hurt or just landed awkwardly).

Our only real role is to deiced how long "immediately" is so we know when to resume play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Any reasonable time lapse between the player (potentially) being injured and the time the coach gets out there won't affect the seriousness of the injury (e.g., the ACL is already torn, or not, it's not going to "tear more" while the coach takes a few seconds to decide if the player is really hurt or just landed awkwardly).

Sometimes a downed player just needs some comforting words from his or her coach. Parents expect coaches to do such, as so do many officials.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sometimes a downed player just needs some comforting words from his or her coach. Parents expect coaches to do such, as so do many officials.

As do you, not many officials. All this stuff you're talking about is the first I've ever heard. I have never heard anybody discuss girls basketball this way. I have however, heard many girls coaches and former players complain about having their games officiated differently than boys games.

Might be time for you to join this decade and discard that "sugar and spice", "I gotta protect the weaker sex" philosophy.

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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Sometimes a downed player just needs some comforting words from his or her coach. Parents expect coaches to do such, as so do many officials.

To the extent this is true -- then *let* the coach come out; don't *beckon* the coach to come out.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

To the extent this is true, then "let" the coach come out; don't "beckon" the coach to come out.

Good advice, especially with new rule and interpretation that implies that such a coach isn't charged with technical foul, while a "beckon" alone kicks in the "sit a tick or take a timeout rule".

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

To the extent this is true -- then *let* the coach come out; don't *beckon* the coach to come out.

Yep as long as they are going to their player we consider them beckoned. If we are stopping the game for an injured player,. 95% of the time the player needs to come off the court. Coach is coming already most of the time, occasionally you do have to beckon them.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

I was asking a serious question about why you treat athletes differently based on gender when it comes to hitting the floor.

While there are lots of exceptions, forty plus years of officiating, and twenty-five years of coaching of both boys and girls, including my own son and daughters, have taught me that girls and boys often deal with injuries and pain in different ways.

Girls are more likely to cry, to stay down, and are more likely to want a coach to comfort them on such occasions, and usually don't complain when the coach has them sit a few minutes on the bench to compose themselves.

Boys are less likely to cry, and often likely to be up and walking (limping) before the coach gets to them, insisting that they're alright, want to "walk it off, and want to keep playing.

Maybe the difference isn't observed as much at the college level (they're now young women not adolescent girls), but I definitely see this gender difference in my middle school games.

Again, there are lots of exceptions, many tough girls, and many soft boys.

Of course, it also depends on the injury. When girls go down with a knee injury, I immediately think about the possibility of an ACL injury.

Yes, boys can have ACL injuries, but statistics point out that girls are much more likely to sustain such an ACL injury.

The relative risk of ACL injury in women is 3 to 8 times greater than males.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While there are lots of exceptions, forty plus years of officiating, and twenty-five years of coaching of both boys and girls, including my own son and daughters, have taught me that girls and boys often deal with injuries and pain in different ways.

Girls are more likely to cry, to stay down, and are more likely to want a coach to comfort them on such occasions, and usually don't complain when the coach has them sit a few minutes on the bench to compose themselves.

Boys are less likely to cry, and often likely to be up and walking (limping) before the coach gets to them, insisting that they're alright, want to "walk it off, and want to keep playing.

Maybe the difference isn't observed as much at the college level (they're now young women not adolescent girls), but I definitely see this gender difference in my middle school games.

Again, there are lots of exceptions, many tough girls, and many soft boys.

Of course, it also depends on the injury. When girls go down with a knee injury, I immediately think about the possibility of an ACL injury.

Yes, boys can have ACL injuries, but statistics point out that girls are much more likely to sustain such an ACL injury.

The relative risk of ACL injury in women is 3 to 8 times greater than males.

Except for your comment about young females suffering knee injuries at a higher rate than young males, the rest of that stuff must be a Connecticut thing. And I doubt it's a Connecticut thing that UConn's women's coach would agree with.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Except for your comment about young females suffering knee injuries at a higher rate than young males, the rest of that stuff must be a Connecticut thing. And I doubt it's a Connecticut thing that UConn's women's coach would agree with.

The coach at UConn did recently say that he "Coaches basketball" he does not coach "Women's basketball." He went on to say that he gets upset when coaches treat young ladies differently than other male players. He expects toughness regardless of who you are.

But regardless of what is likely, if a player stays down and acts clearly hurt (even if it is not serious) I would not treat the situation differently in principle. I do not do a lot of middle school (actually have not in years) but little boys cried when all kinds of things at a young age and it does not have to be because of an injury or being hurt. They cry if you call a foul on them. IJS.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... the rest of that stuff must be a Connecticut thing.

Possibly, but I've been almost solely doing middle school basketball (boys and girls) for the past five years, and I did Catholic middle school basketball (boys and girls) on my off nights from varsity high school games for about thirty years, and, though anecdotal, I swear that middle school girls and boys often (though not always) deal with injuries and pain in different ways.