Former Official In Need of Ginseng

[Rufus]

Watching the end of the UConn vs. South Carolina WBB game yesterday had a casebook play come up I wanted to ask about (I'd look in the casebook but I've long since purged those from my library).

A1 is inbounding midcourt for a spot throw-in after time out. She's having difficulty doing so, however, and the 5 count is getting deep. A2, established with both feet inbounds, flashes in front of A1. A1 either (1) extends the ball into inbounds territory and, while still holding the ball, A2 also grasps it from her or (2) holds the ball OOB and A2 reaches into OOB to grasp the ball and take it into inbounds territory.

If I recall correctly it's a throw-in violation in both instances?

To play this out a bit more (and these didn't occur in the game, just got me thinking) same situation as above but this time (3) A1 holds the ball inbounds and B1 grabs it, or (4) A1 holds the ball inbounds and B1 makes illegal contact with the part of A1's arm that's over inbound territory, or (5) A1 holds the ball OOB and B1 makes illegal contact with A1's arm, or (6) A1 holds the ball OOB and B1 grabs it OOB.

I think the results of these are:

3 - no violation, play on
4 - common foul charged to B1
5 - intentional foul charged to B1
6 - technical foul charged to B1

Appreciate in advance any help you all can provide in shoring up my rapidly dwindling knowledge of fundamental basketball rules.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rufus

(3) A1 holds the ball inbounds and B1 grabs it ...
(4) A1 holds the ball inbounds and B1 makes illegal contact with the part of A1's arm that's over inbound territory ...
(5) A1 holds the ball OOB and B1 makes illegal contact with A1's arm ...
(6) A1 holds the ball OOB and B1 grabs it OOB.

NFHS rules:

3) Legal.

4) Intentional foul - No delay warning (or technical foul if previously warned).

5) Intentional foul - Delay warning (or technical foul if previously warned).

6) Technical Foul - Delay warning (if previously warned).

[bob jenkins]

Same for NCAAW (and 1 and 2 are violations).

NCAA rules and case books for both NCAAM and NCAAW are available for free on-line.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rufus

(2) holds the ball OOB and A2 reaches into OOB to grasp the ball and take it into inbounds territory ...

NFHS rules:

2) Throwin violation.

9.2.2 SITUATION B: The throw-in by A1 is: ... (b) touched or caught by A2 whose hand(s) is on the out-of-bounds side of the throw-in boundary plane. RULING: Violation in ... (b), B’s ball at the spot of the throw-in. (9-2-3; 9-2-6)

[BillyMac]

9.2.10 SITUATION A: A1 is out of bounds for a throw-in. B1 reaches through the boundary plane and knocks the ball out of A1’s hands. Team B has not been warned previously for a throw-in plane infraction. RULING: B1 is charged with a technical foul and it also results in the official having a team warning recorded and reported to the head coach. COMMENT: In situations with the clock running and five or less seconds left in the game, a throw-in plane violation or interfering with the ball following a goal should be ignored if its only purpose is to stop the clock. However, if the tactic in any way interferes with the thrower’s efforts to make a throw-in, a technical foul for delay shall be called even though no previous warning had been issued. In this situation, if the official stopped the clock and issued a team warning, it would allow the team to benefit from the tactic. (4-47-1; 10-1-5b, c; 10-3-10)

9.2.10 SITUATION B: Team A has a (a) designated spot throw-in, or (b) alternating-possession throw-in along the end line. Thrower A1 extends the ball with his/her arms over the end line such that part of the forearms, hands, and the ball are entirely on the inbounds side of the boundary line. B2 slaps A1 on the wrist and dislodges the ball. RULING: In (a) and (b), when a defender makes contact with a thrower-in, the result is an intentional foul. Where A1’s arms are located (on the inbounds or out-of-bounds side of the boundary line) is immaterial. A1 is awarded two free throws and Team A awarded a throw-in at the spot nearest the foul. In (b), since the throw-in did not end, the arrow remains with Team A. (4-19-3e; 6-4-5; 7-5-4b; 9-2-10 Penalty 4)

9.2.10 SITUATION C: Team A has a designated spot throw-in along the end line. Thrower A1 extends the ball with his/her arms over the end line such that part of the forearms, hands and the ball are entirely on the inbounds side of the boundary line. B2 slaps A1 on the wrist and dislodges the ball. RULING: When a defender makes contact with a thrower-in, the result is an intentional foul. Where A1’s arms are located (on the inbounds or out-of-bounds side of the boundary line) is immaterial for this penalty to be assessed. A1 is awarded two free throws and Team A awarded a throw-in at the spot nearest the foul. COMMENT: For a boundary plane violation warning to also be assessed, the defender must actually violate the rule and penetrate the boundary plane. (4-19-3e; 4-47-1; 7-5-4b; 9-2-10 Penalty 4)

[BillyMac]

Rufus; Clarify Title

Once one posts a thread starter, one is then unable to change the title of the thread (only applies to a thread starting post, not a reply post).

One can later change the body of the thread starter post, but not the title.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Rufus; Clarify Title

Once one posts a thread starter, one is then unable to change the title of the thread (only applies to a thread starting post, not a reply post).

One can later change the body of the thread starter post, but not the title.

Thanks Billy! What's interesting is when I went in to edit the title it wouldn't allow me to do so. I could click on Advanced Edit, however, and that made it available where I updated it. When I saved the change it didn't reflect on the post. Interesting.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Appreciate in advance any help you all can provide in shoring up my rapidly dwindling knowledge of fundamental basketball rules.

Rufus: You covered a lot of bases. I'm surprised that you didn't cover this rare situation below:

6.4.5 SITUATION B: During an alternating-possession throw-in, thrower A1 holds the ball through the end-line plane and B1 grabs it, resulting in a held ball. RULING: Since the throw-in had not ended and no violation occurred, it is still A’s ball for an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-42-5)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Thanks Billy! What's interesting is when I went in to edit the title it wouldn't allow me to do so. I could click on Advanced Edit, however, and that made it available where I updated it. When I saved the change it didn't reflect on the post. Interesting.

I'm not sure that one can delete a thread starter post. One can change the body content of the thread starter post, but cannot delete the post, nor delete (or change) the title.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Rufus: You covered a lot of bases. I'm surprised that you didn't cover this rare situation below:

6.4.5 SITUATION B: During an alternating-possession throw-in, thrower A1 holds the ball through the end-line plane and B1 grabs it, resulting in a held ball. RULING: Since the throw-in had not ended and no violation occurred, it is still A’s ball for an alternating-possession throw-in. (4-42-5)

Ha! Forgot about that one completely! I was still trying to wrap my head around why it's a violation for the same team to touch a ball that's inbounds but held by the thrower in versus not a violation for an opposing team member to do so. I suspect it has to due with same team gaining an advantage versus a play-on for opposing team members but that's what prompted the question (plus I'm a UConn fan and thought that was a miss by the [way more qualified than me] crew!).

[BillyMac]

A lot of weird stuff can happen on throwins:

7.6.4 SITUATION A: While attempting a throw-in, A1 holds the ball through the plane of the end line. B1: (a) slaps the ball from A1’s hand(s); or (b) simply grabs the ball and then throws it through B’s basket. RULING: In (a), no violation has occurred and play continues. In (b), score two points for Team B.

7.6.4 SITUATION E: Thrower A1 inadvertently holds the ball through the end-line plane during a throw-in. B1 is able to get his/her hands on the ball and A1 cannot pull it back. RULING: A held ball is ruled, resulting in an alternating-possession throw-in. If the original throw-in is an alternating-possession throw-in, Team A still has the arrow following the held ball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rufus

(1) extends the ball into inbounds territory and, while still holding the ball, A2 also grasps it from her ...

NFHS rules.

1) Violation - It must be a pass.

7-6-2: The thrower must release the ball on a pass directly into the court …

I can't find a caseplay or annual interpretation.

How about it Nevadaref? Go do that voodoo that you do so well.