Offensive foul/flop/Incidental Contact

[Coach Bill]

NCAA Men's Basketball:



Offensive foul was the call. Correct?

[JRutledge]

I have no issues with the call. The player just ran into him. Pretty big boy as well. Why is he running right at him in the first place?

Peace

[Raymond]

My only issue is the Center should have put a whistle on it instead of my good friend in the Lead.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[MechanicGuy]

By rule, it's an offensive foul. But it's a terrible precedent to set for the game and essentially a way for the defense to abuse the rule. Derek Fisher used to do this all over the court on unsuspecting offensive players just switching ends.

The offensive player isn't attempting to post up, set a screen, cut to the basket etc...he's just switching ends. The defender is also looking to hit the floor. I hate it.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

By rule, it's an offensive foul. But it's a terrible precedent to set for the game and essentially a way for the defense to abuse the rule. Derek Fisher used to do this all over the court on unsuspecting offensive players just switching ends.

The offensive player isn't attempting to post up, set a screen, cut to the basket etc...he's just switching ends. The defender is also looking to hit the floor. I hate it.

I don't like it either. Similar, to the guy that turned to run up court and celebrated and accidentally punched the guy. There was no foul on that play.

So, why a foul on this play? What is the difference?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

I don't like it either. Similar, to the guy that turned to run up court and celebrated and accidentally punched the guy. There was no foul on that play.

So, why a foul on this play? What is the difference?

Those are two very different things. All contact is not a foul for one. And if you are going to call a Flagrant or Intentional Foul on that, there has to be more than they run into each other accidentally. That happens all the time.

This play is a live ball with a player clearly standing in front of him and he does nothing to avoid him. He runs him over. That is a very different play.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

I don't like it either. Similar, to the guy that turned to run up court and celebrated and accidentally punched the guy. There was no foul on that play.

So, why a foul on this play? What is the difference?

Because you can't rule a common foul on a monitor review unless there was a whistle for some sort of foul in the first place. Their only choices were F1 or F2, and the play did not meet the criteria for either.

Every player being entitled to their spot is a common concept in basketball. The offensive player had time and distance to avoid contact and didn't in this play. He also didn't stop upon contact, he extended his arms further in knocking down the opponent.

[bob jenkins]

Heck -- I've called this in a HS game. Delaying the offensive player from getting to his spot is valid defense.

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Heck -- I've called this in a HS game. Delaying the offensive player from getting to his spot is valid defense.

While I agree think this likely needs to be called, I don't believe this defender was merely trying to delay the offensive player. It's possible that he'd been pushed around prior and this was a necessary tactic - but the defender's entire goal on this play was to draw an offensive foul. Much like an offensive player swinging his arms through a defenders arm in a wholly unnatural motion (a la KD or Chris Paul) with the sole goal being another foul on the defense.

Those type of plays are, in my opinion, bad for the game of basketball and we should be hesitant to reward them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

While I agree think this likely needs to be called, I don't believe this defender was merely trying to delay the offensive player. It's possible that he'd been pushed around prior and this was a necessary tactic - but the defender's entire goal on this play was to draw an offensive foul. Much like an offensive player swinging his arms through a defenders arm in a wholly unnatural motion (a la KD or Chris Paul) with the sole goal being another foul on the defense.

Those type of plays are, in my opinion, bad for the game of basketball and we should be hesitant to reward them.

What do you want to happen? He is allowed that spot as he got there in plenty of time. And by rule he gave plenty of time and distance. The offensive player needs to go around or set up before contact.

Peace

[Multiple Sports]

This may be the easiest call that any D1 official may make all year. I'm concerned that other posters may think that this foul may be exaggerated or has no place in the game.

[BillyMac]

In my high school game, this is a team control foul.

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What do you want to happen? He is allowed that spot as he got there in plenty of time. And by rule he gave plenty of time and distance. The offensive player needs to go around or set up before contact.

Peace

Again, I think this is a foul. But any action designed solely to draw is ugly and a short distance to an unwatchable and unmanageable game.

This offensive player clearly committed a foul, but if he were at half court and looking to the side and the same contact occurred it would still be a TC foul by rule. Do we want that to be part of the game? Intentionally stepping in front of unaware players in order to rack up team fouls?

The play in question isn’t that, but it’s not too far off.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

Again, I think this is a foul. But any action designed solely to draw is ugly and a short distance to an unwatchable and unmanageable game.

This offensive player clearly committed a foul, but if he were at half court and looking to the side and the same contact occurred it would still be a TC foul by rule. Do we want that to be part of the game? Intentionally stepping in front of unaware players in order to rack up team fouls?

The play in question isn’t that, but it’s not too far off.

The offensive player can avoid this by going around. He could do that anywhere on the court. It rarely happens for that reason.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

Again, I think this is a foul. But any action designed solely to draw is ugly and a short distance to an unwatchable and unmanageable game.



This offensive player clearly committed a foul, but if he were at half court and looking to the side and the same contact occurred it would still be a TC foul by rule. Do we want that to be part of the game? Intentionally stepping in front of unaware players in order to rack up team fouls?



The play in question isn’t that, but it’s not too far off.

There are time and distance factors for players without the ball. Those requirements were met. If an opponent is standing like a statue in the middle of a court, run around them and be wide open to receive the ball bc they won't be ready to play defense and react to your movement.

In my 20 years of officiating it was never an epidemic. In my first year in retirement I've watched a lot of basketball in my positions as observer and trainer and haven't seen it happen once this season. If it happens more than once in a game the coach needs to talk to his or her players about paying attention to what's going on in front of them.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk