Foul or incidental contact?

[rfp]

Player A2 sets a legal screen with plenty of time and distance before contact. Player A1 legally runs his defensive player, B1, into the screen. Due to the fact that B1 did not notice the screen, he crashes into A2 knocking him flying.

Is this considered a foul on B1 or is it considered incidental contact, play on? Rule reference, please.

[mbyron]

4-27-4: A player who is screened within his/her visual field is expected to
avoid contact with the screener by stopping or going around the screener. In
cases of screens outside the visual field, the opponent may make inadvertent
contact with the screener, and such contact is to be ruled incidental contact,
provided the screener is not displaced if he/she has the ball.

[rfp]

So in this situation, you can have a trainwreck -- and everyone in the gym howling -- and no foul.

[Smitty]

And your point is? Setting a good blind screen, the screener should expect to take some contact. If the screen was truly effective, the dribbler probably got off an open shot. Good screen. Play on.

[zm1283]

This happened to me a couple of years ago and everyone in the gym was screaming for a foul. A2 set a blind screen on B1, but when B1 turned her head, they collided and both went to the floor. We played on.

[CoachP]

Originally Posted by rfp

So in this situation, you can have a trainwreck -- and everyone in the gym howling -- and no foul.

From what I've read around here (and heard from peers in the area):

If B1 hits A2 and stops as soon as he/she makes contact, no foul. I suppose A2 still could go flying--flopping....

If B1 hits the screen and proceeds "thru" A2, then it's a foul. This case is more than likely the "train wreck"

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by CoachP

From what I've read around here (and heard from peers in the area):

If B1 hits A2 and stops as soon as he/she makes contact, no foul. I suppose A2 still could go flying--flopping....

If B1 hits the screen and proceeds "thru" A2, then it's a foul. This case is more than likely the "train wreck"

Or if both go to the floor because even B1 couldn't "stop", there is still no foul as the screen was set for the explicit purpose taking contact to free up A1. It did that.

[Adam]

Camron's right, the contact can legitimately send the screener to the floor and there may or may not be a foul.

IMO that's one you gotta see from the beginning to the end. Only seeing the end result will make you want to pop, then you'd be guessing. Can't be a ball watcher & rule correct in those cases.

[gslefeb]

"4-27-4: A player who is screened within his/her visual field is expected to
avoid contact with the screener by stopping or going around the screener. In
cases of screens outside the visual field, the opponent may make inadvertent
contact with the screener, and such contact is to be ruled incidental contact,
provided the screener is not displaced if he/she has the ball.

It is Inadvertent contact if B1 did not see or could not avoid the screen then the contact is incidental. No foul.

If B1 sees the screen and can avoid but chooses to run through the screener then it is a foul. The "runs through" versus contact as stated by CoachP

[JRutledge]

Incidental all the way if there was enough time and distance.

Peace

[Indianaref]

4-27-4: A player who is screened within his/her visual field is expected to
avoid contact with the screener by stopping or going around the screener. In
cases of screens outside the visual field, the opponent may make inadvertent
contact with the screener, and such contact is to be ruled incidental contact,
provided the screener is not displaced if he/she has the ball.

Have you ever seen a screener with the ball?

Absolutely

A1 who is at the 28ft line passes to A5 on the left elbow at the FT line. As A1 cuts backdoor he rubs his defender off of A5. A5 passes back to A1 for the lay-up.

Originally Posted by Indianaref

Have you ever seen a screener with the ball?

You never really paid attention to how Michael Jordan got some of his points. Even Bill Laimbeer played this role for the Bad Boys Detroit Pistons. This was my favorite move when I played JH ball, and drove my coach nuts, but my dad was ever proud.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

4-27-4: A player who is screened within his/her visual field is expected to
avoid contact with the screener by stopping or going around the screener. In
cases of screens outside the visual field, the opponent may make inadvertent
contact with the screener, and such contact is to be ruled incidental contact,
provided the screener is not displaced if he/she has the ball.

Have you ever seen a screener with the ball?

Yes....and I've called a foul on that screener on occassion.

Example Play....A1 has the ball at the 3-point arc even with the free-throw line extended. A2 cuts up the lane and curls around the top of A1 towards the corner or back towards the basket. B2 is picked by A1 leaving A2 is open in the corner or on a cut to the basket. A1 drops the ball to A2 for the layup or open corner-shot.

The foul occurs when A2 passes by A1, then A1, currently having their pivot foot farthest from the basket, pivots away from the basket to put their body/hip/leg into the path of B2....knocking B2 off path in order to free up A2. This is often missed as many officials don't expect it to happen and are watching the primary defender B1....or might even think that B1 is guilty of a foul for running into A1. But, this is a screen and A1 must give B2 time/distance to avoid contact.