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Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 03:29pm
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HS Flopping

In the third place game of the Maui Invite last night, I saw a Class B Tech issued against SDSU for a flop. It was a great call; 3pt shooter fell back to try to get a phantom foul call and the T was right there on top of it.

I know this is a POE right now at the collegiate level as they try to get flopping out of the game. It appears this POE trickled down from the NBA level. My question is, has anyone's state or supervisor emphasized this at the HS level yet? The rules book has always held that faking being fouled can be penalized with a T. But we have always been far more content to just no-call flops.

Honestly I'd love to start issuing Ts for flopping if I thought my supervisor would support it. I'm wondering if maybe next spring is the time that the NFHS rules committee will finally make this a HS POE. It feels like the national top cover would really help supervisors who are otherwise reluctant to rock the boat at the local level.
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Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 05:14pm
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The NFHS can make it a POE until the cows come home and it’s never going to get enforced at the HS level until you lessen the penalty to be similar to what it is in NCAA-M (1 shot, POI).

Flopping was a 2-shot technical for years in NCAA-M and no one enforced it. They added the warning and changed it to a Class B technical and made clear they wanted it enforced. That worked for a little while until they eliminated the warning.
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Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 05:51pm
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I don't see a lot of high school players flopping while playing offense. I do sometimes see it on defense. Nothing agregous though. In all of the hundred of games I have witnessed, I saw a T for a defensive flop once and it was well deserved.
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Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 06:16pm
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Can't get guys to properly call charges now because they think a little lean back is a flop. Think encouraging that behavior more will help? I think not.
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Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 07:27pm
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Since 1967 ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
The rules book has always held that faking being fouled can be penalized with a T. But we have always been far more content to just no-call flops.
I've been playing, observing, coaching, and officiating interscholastic basketball since 1967.

Never observed a flop called. Never called a flop.

I've orally warned as few players to watch out, but I'm not going to be the one to call the first flop call I've observed in fifty-five years.

I'd rather die on another hill.

Who knows? Maybe, before I hang up my whistle, I'll see such an obvious flop that I'll have no choice but to call it?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Nov 26, 2022 at 09:47am.
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Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 08:45pm
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It is not a POE, it was a rules change in a non-rules change year.

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Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 08:48pm
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NFHS would need to make a different technical foul category for it so it isn't so punitive. In NCAA men's basketball its a Class B technical, so there's only one free throw, return to the point of interruption, and it doesn't count against the personal fouls.

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Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 08:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
The NFHS can make it a POE until the cows come home and it’s never going to get enforced at the HS level until you lessen the penalty to be similar to what it is in NCAA-M (1 shot, POI).

Flopping was a 2-shot technical for years in NCAA-M and no one enforced it. They added the warning and changed it to a Class B technical and made clear they wanted it enforced. That worked for a little while until they eliminated the warning.
When was it ever a 2 shot Technical? I do not remember that. If you mean they had the same lame wording as the NF and it was never discussed how to make that call, sure.

But ai cannot think of a time examples were on the videos shown or giving specific language to how or when to call a flop. What they are doing now and talking about is different.

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Old Thu Nov 24, 2022, 11:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I don't see a lot of high school players flopping while playing offense. I do sometimes see it on defense. Nothing agregous though. In all of the hundred of games I have witnessed, I saw a T for a defensive flop once and it was well deserved.
3pt shooters are the second most prolific floppers next to defenders on block/charges.

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Old Sat Nov 26, 2022, 09:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
3pt shooters are the second most prolific floppers next to defenders on block/charges.

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Very subjective observations. I just don't see it as a problem in my neck of the woods. Do kids fall with very minimal contact? Yes. Do kids wildly throw themselves without being touched? Very seldom. So infrequently that it is not worth extra emphasis to address.
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Old Sat Nov 26, 2022, 11:02am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Very subjective observations. I just don't see it as a problem in my neck of the woods. Do kids fall with very minimal contact? Yes. Do kids wildly throw themselves without being touched? Very seldom. So infrequently that it is not worth extra emphasis to address.
It is my job to watch games, both at the college and high school levels. The three-point flop is definitely more prevalent at the college level. At the high school level, block/charge flops are still number one.

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Old Sat Nov 26, 2022, 11:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
It is my job to watch games, both at the college and high school levels. The three-point flop is definitely more prevalent at the college level. At the high school level, block/charge flops are still number one.

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Yeah...my initial comment was regarding high school basketball. I don't disagree that the most common form of faking a foul is the block/charge, but it is not worth POE. Not in my part of the country anyway.
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Old Sun Nov 27, 2022, 03:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
It is my job to watch games, both at the college and high school levels. The three-point flop is definitely more prevalent at the college level. At the high school level, block/charge flops are still number one.

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If there were an RA in HS basketball, you wouldn’t see as many block/charge flops there, either.

Too much risk of losing track of where you are and then getting charged with an RA block as a reward for your acting skills.


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Old Sun Nov 27, 2022, 03:39pm
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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
If there were an RA in HS basketball, you wouldn’t see as many block/charge flops there, either.

Too much risk of losing track of where you are and then getting charged with an RA block as a reward for your acting skills.


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They flop everywhere on the court. They do not just flop in the lane. They flop outside the 3 point line all often in high school. Also not all contact in the RA is a foul either, so they could still flop there.

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